GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Once I figured out his sense of humor, I've started to enjoy reading Bob Lutz quotes like this one.

Bob Wilson

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

:omg: You gotta be kidding.

Does this mean he will give me my Volt back -- or maybee give me a deal on a new one in recognition of my loss?

(NOT !)

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

No Kidding.

GM's slow progress to introduce a dual mode hybrid into a mid size SUV has caused me to get a hybrid Escape. Our current car needs replacing now, an Escape was ordered last month and will be here in 2 weeks. My wife wanted a Vue hybrid in the worst way because she liked the styling. Not that getting a Vue lite hybrid has been made any easier, but GM should have monkeyed around less with trying out their dual mode hybrid on the large SUV's and put some of that dual mode into the mid size SUV's like the Vue from the get go. I want a hybrid that has the proven technology of dual mode hybrid, has the utility of an SUV and the gas mileage of our other car - a Honda Civic.

After 5 years when its time to trade in the Escape we'll see what the latest technology has to offer and hopefully GM will indeed have learned from their feet dragging.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Agreed. That same shortsightness by GM management will lead me to also purchase a Ford product (in this case, probably the MMH) in the very near term to replace my wife's Forester.

GM is just begining to understand, but does not yet fully comprehend the comsumer mindset that drives hybrid sales. They have made the connection for Fuel Economy, but mostly think that the sole motivation for hybrid purchase is operating costs. They have yet to understand that a significant part of the second and third generation of hybrid consumers is driven as much, or in some cases more, by environmental concerns as by economic ones. And that those consumers will chose to downsize not only for economic reasons, but also for environmental ones. (Immediate case-in-point, I am choosing the MMH over the HyHi primarily on both economics and environmental impact. The HiHy is a good hybrid, but simply to much car for our needs.)

There will always be those that genuinely need larger vehicles, but GM and Chrysler continue to attempt development of a culture that has housewives and single commuters running around in truck-sized vehicles with power eating accessories and a "big is better" concept. They will claim that this corporate attitude is the result of "consumer demand", but the truth is that the millions of dollars in automotive advertising helps to form the consumer culture and therefore proliferates that "consumer demand". Consider the ads during the Super Bown, World Series and Olympic Games to name only a few.

Toyota, Honda, and to a lesser extent Ford, have proven that advertising eco-friendly vechicles and lifestyles can impact consumer choice. So it rapidly boils down to how ecologically responsible the corporation wants to be.

:angry: GM has not convined me that they care that much yet, and until they do I will not purchase a GM product.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Rest assured that GM and other US automakers will continue to make mistakes, tripping all over themselves. For whatever reasons, our favs will continue to fall behind in the technological race.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'

So Mr. Lutz, what exactly happened to the EV1 technology? You brought to market then, why not now. You have the technology NOW why are you reinventing the wheel with the VOLT. Unfortunately, for GM, you are too late to play in the market. That is OK, Toyota and Honda have the solutions readily available.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Good question. In his little speech, Lutz said GM would not make the mistake again (being bold rather than cautious). Sorry to say he's mistaken. Everything about GM and perhaps Chrysler says, "Caution", "Big is Better".

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Of course, given GM's track record of getting new tech 'right', it's likely just as well. Going back to the 50's (60 'vair, the Tempest rope driveshaft, the Buick AL V8, first couple of years of the FWD Toronado/Eldorado), the 70's (70 Vega), the 80's (X cars, THM 7004R and even the 200 trannies, the Olds Diesel), the 90's (the early Northstar engines and FWD trannies) and even in this decade (the SSR, first couple of years of Trailblazer DOHC 6). Folks that buy a GM model with significant 'brand spankin new' tech must like to have the dealer's service adviser as their best bud. :omg:

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

The REAL bottom line is, GM never thought that gas prices would get as high as they did, and quite simply misjudged the market for small cars and hybrids. 70's all over again with Detroit? Seems like it to me.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Sort of. The real issue for GM, Ford, and Chrysler is that they got addicted to the (ridiculous) margins on large SUVs. In reality, a compact hybrid vehicle costs more to produce than a lard-a** SUV, with considerably more advanced technology. In the US market, it's easy to make the case for a $40K Tahoe, even it costs < 15K to produce. For a smallish Hybrid, the the margins of that size aren't there, so it's hard to build a decent business case for the product. The only problem is that your company's survival depends on having vehicles to sell, even when you can't get elephantine margins.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

Funny GM quote, I've read in several places where Japan's research and production of hybrids were a direct result of GM's electric car project.

I bought my HCH when gas was $1.24/g. I was in the market for the most fuel efficient 5 passenger car I could find. I was concerned gas might reach $2/g.

Being a Dodge patron, and especially loyal to American cars found nothing in any of the big 3 lineup which came close.
So I abandoned my 1st choice, and any American car.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

You got that right.
And hey! Let's not ever forget the Cadillac "Four, Six, Eight". The flagship of the GM lineup; and EVERY unit had to be recalled for a complete engine swap out.

Re: GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'
 

That really was a matter of an idea 'before its time'. The computers of the day couldn't effectively mange the switchover, leading to poor drivabilitiy. Took a while to realize that you had to have the computer running the whole show, including throttle, advance, TCC engagement and trans shift points before a system like that could work; we have an 05 Odyssey that has VCM that works pretty transparently...