New battery installed
 

2008 Chevy Tahoe Hybrid:
- At 100,000 "Service Hybrid System" message. Dealer said I needed new battery. I told him to clear codes and kept driving.
- Same thing happened at 200,000 miles. Dealer again confirmed I needed a new battery and quoted $4,000.00+
- Now at 203,000 miles had 2 unexpected shut offs with immediate restart. "Service Hybrid System" message again.
- Researched suppliers and debated to DIY, new or reconditioned. Most suppliers wanted between $2,100 - $3,200 plus $1,000 core charge, plus shipping or installation @ $250 + tax. 1-2 year warranty.
- Decided on Green Bean Hybrid. $2,349 including tax and installation in my drive-way. Called Tuesday. Installed this AM (Thursday) Took 1:15. Prompt efficient & courteous. 5-year pro-rated warranty on a reconditioned battery. Paid with Credit card after installation. He also analyzed and cleared all codes relating to the Hybrid System. No need to reprogram.

Highly recommend Green Bean Hybrid. They are out of Raleigh NC. I live in Erie, PA.

Re: New battery installed
 

Please keep us informed. Greenbean appears to only have been doing this for about 7 months. Reconditioned batteries just don't last much more than 3-4 years unless you're buying low mileage salvage packs and just dropping them in.

Good luck!

Re: New battery installed
 

They offer a five year warranty.

Re: New battery installed
 

No, they offer a pro-rated 5 year warranty... again... only in business about 9 months (I was off by two months previously).

If you understand what you're looking at in the material they present, you can figure out what equipment they're using, and the criteria they are applying. I would not trust that equipment, nor would I apply such sloppy criteria.

The only positive is that they appear to be doing SOMETHING, which is more than so many "experts" that just replace modules based on voltage alone.

I can guarantee you that unless he is installing low mileage salvage yard packs, he is going to have a near 100% warranty rate.

I'll be surprised if he's still in business 4.25 years from now.

Re: New battery installed
 

Their pro-rated warranty, for all to see... Granted, pretty worthless after 36 months...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gre...8e631fee6.jpeg

Re: New battery installed
 

When determining value, one should count on a failure in the 1.5-3 year timeframe. At this point you will have paid 150% of the price of a battery. In the case of the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, that would put the price at $3,523, which is I believe more than a new one.

The typical reconditioned battery has 8+ years, 100-200K miles already on it (since they're out of warranty). Even if you recondition to a "like new" state of health, there is still damage. It's absurd to expect "like new" life out of them. 3-4 years is about all you can hope for given their age and wear.

5 years is a gimmick as the dive into the warranty details provides. It's essentially an 18 month warranty. It's structured that way because they know they'll never build a battery that makes it 5 years, but they get to advertise it and sell at a premium. They'll probably do very well the first 3 years. Then things will grind to a halt as they have so many warranty returns, they can't fill them and still sell new packs.

Re: New battery installed
 

You use the words "sell at a premium". But can you find me a better value? I have found what is allegedly a new pack for around $2800. Plus a $1000 core (plots shipping). If it's no big deal to swap out myself, or even if it costs me $500 to install, that may be a better path?

Re: New battery installed
 

You're missing my point. Full price at the dealership for a new battery is a better VALUE. You're likely paying $3500+ (best case) for 5 years worth of a reconditioned battery where you're likely to get 8+ years/100K miles out of a new one.

Re: New battery installed
 

No. Not really missing the point here. The so called experts (dealerships) can't even find the part number for this. All alternative part numbers are not available, no ETA.


So now what?

Re: New battery installed
 

Re: New battery installed
 

Yes, thanks for linking to your post I was referring to.

Re: New battery installed
 

You're welcome. I didn't know you were referring to it since you didn't mention it. I assume you've called multiple dealers?

Re: New battery installed
 

Just got off the phone with my local dealer who confirmed that the 84141586 is the proper replacement - they haven't updated the computers to reflect the supercedence. $3,879 installed.


I can find it online for around $2,800 plus shipping and a $1,000 core if I install it myself. Any concerns about installing this battery on a Tahoe?

Re: New battery installed
 

IF I planned to keep the vehicle indefinitely, i.e., drive the wheels off of it (not letting it sit for more than a weekend - daily driving - 12K+/year), I would absolutely buy new without hesitation. Period. Not even a slight doubt in my mind.


IF I planned to keep it less than 5 years, I would sell it now for KBB minus the cost of a GreenBean and be done with it.

Re: New battery installed
 

Anyone with any decent mechanical skill and can follow directions on Youtube can replace individual cells that are weak for like $25 each cell. Yes there are lots of connections and yes there are steps to balance the cells etc, but why replace cells that are perfectly fine. Some NiMh cells last almost forever if conditioned right and some are weak and fail. Ask all the RC people. Are packs are the same way. Just have to have the patience to find out which one is bad and do all the steps. Anyone else do this?

Re: New battery installed
 

This is a commonly held misconception. The best analogy is an 18 wheeler with bald tires. One blows. It's brought into the shop with wheel covers on that can't be removed easily without specialized expensive equipment, and the only measurement one can take is tire pressure. The one bad one is obvious (this time). It is replaced and sent on its way. What is the expectation of longevity?

There are many accounts of this on YouTube. When the longevity is tested, the longest last a little over a year. Many are frequently into the packs repeating the same procedure within 3-6 months or less.

Here is a Prius pack that threw a P0A80 and sat for about a month. Which modules would you replace for a reliable repair (greater than 1 year)?

1 7.44
2 7.45
3 7.44
4 7.42
5 7.41
6 5.87
7 6.08
8 7.35
9 6.70
10 7.32
11 7.40
12 7.30
13 7.07
14 6.97
15 7.01
16 6.79
17 7.38
18 7.35
19 6.54
20 7.39
21 7.47
22 7.38
23 7.38
24 7.42
25 7.42
26 7.45
27 7.44
28 7.46

Re: New battery installed
 

I'm guessing he's not going to answer. MOST would see the low voltage modules:

6 5.87
7 6.08
9 6.70
13 7.07
14 6.97
15 7.01
16 6.79
19 6.54

That's 8 modules. Well, you're 11 short. Here's what actual testing and reconditioning shows:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gre...4aeb91824c.png

The red bars are the PRE-reconditioning. The green bars as POST-reconditioning. The RED bars are more indicative of how they will perform if you just swap them out based on voltage alone. The green bars are how they will perform if you recondition them.

The colored zones reflect how long I would expect them to last.

Note how 11 of the green bars are UNDER the 4000mAh line. Anything below this is going to be unreliable and will look like a game of whack-a-mole with you breaking down the pack every 3-6 months (at best).

Modules in the red zone will likely not work for any significant period of time. The car will see them as such low capacity, they will code P0A80 for deterioration.

Re: New battery installed
 

So I have to ask.


Does anyone in their right mind want a novice poking around in a series wired High Voltage battery pack?


Just askin.

Re: New battery installed
 

Nope.


I was hoping to present a very discouraging, real-world scenario to discourage it. :)

I think if most folks went into it knowing that they might need to replace 19 of 28 modules to have a recently reliable repair, they would see it as too much to tackle.

Re: New battery installed
 

That's why there is a safety switch that you have to disconnect from the hybrid battery in order to remove it. Your one shock away.

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So - if your main concern about a Greenbean battery is that reconditioned cells don't have a reliable life, what would be wrong with replacing all modules with BRAND NEW ones at once, at say $50 each?

IE: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hybrid-Batt...dZ~bAp&vxp=mtr

Disregard. These are advertised as "New" reconditioned batteries. How much can BRAND NEW modules cost?

Re: New battery installed
 

First, there are 40 modules in the GM pack not 20. Second, that seller only has 3. Third, I have purchased half a dozen modules on eBay. I have never received a good one that meets my standards.

New modules can only be obtained by purchasing new whole batteries from Toyota, Lexus Nissan or GM.

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Yeah - I realized that and tried to edit before you got to it. Amazon, $38 x 40 = $1500ish. And, still, the same reliability as a GreenBean.

Sorry - got all caught up over the 'new'. That's really false advertising and all HV Hybrid modules should be sold as Refurbished.

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I reported the auction as a fraudulent listing.

I would speculate they are likely worse than GreenBean. They only give voltage and load test criteria (that they likely don't even meet). Even a module with very low capacity can meet those requirements if the goal is to meet those requirements.

At least GreenBean is trying even if they're using sub-optimal equipment and practices.

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I don't want this to come across as crass in any way, but what is it that YOU do with batteries? Do you refurbish them? Does your processes carry the same expectancy you afford others? I'm not trying to be a snot or anything. I KNOW you are an expert - particularly with the Panasonic modules. Just curious how you revenue your talent.

Re: New battery installed
 

LOL... if you haven't gathered my level of (in)sensitivity by my typical forum response, I assure you... I don't think I can even recognize crass or snotty if it bit me in the a$$. :)


I sell refurbished batteries in my area with 18 month non-pro-rated warranties for less than 30% the price of Toyota new. My goal with every build is to assemble a battery that I believe has a 3-4 year potential life based on response to reconditioning and my standards. On average, I replace 20% of a pack because it doesn't meet my standards.


To give you an idea of what I regard as necessary to properly recondition a battery, I have 12-16 hours of touch-time wrapped into each battery.


I have sold approximately 110 in the last 20 months. I have had 3 returns due to leaks, which is a chronic problem, which is almost unique to the Phoenix climate.

Re: New battery installed
 

Awesome. I know that there are a LOT of Prius modules out there, and there is a ton of opportunity to fix packs without replacing the full unit. So long as the price is right, and the expectations are reasonable, I hope you continue to prosper - and share.


My frustration is the relative low number of Chevys out there with the Hybrid system, and the dealership's complete ineptitude in properly diagnosing. As mentioned in other threads, GM seems to have intentionally set the threshold for failure so high that the vehicle experiences the symptoms of battery pack failure LONG before codes start appearing. In a sense, it's nice to know that you won't typically be stranded on the side of a lonely highway when a single cell decides to go rogue. But to make it so undetectable that the "experts" on a local level can't handle the situation is, in fact, a tragedy.


I hate to think about how many 08-09 Tahoes, Denalis and Escalades there are out there with the prone to fail AFM and reaching battery life. Most of these in the resale market are typically immaculate inside. Unfortunately, they'd need to sell for around $8000 to make a refurb financially viable.

Re: New battery installed
 

While I don't have any specific knowledge about how the GMs manage the battery, it appears to do so relatively poorly regardless of the symptom vs. code issue to which you refer.

The performance of the few batteries I've seen with posted log data are something of a crime scene indicating a widespread deterioration of capacity without cell failure - this is the worst case for repairs and almost always mandates complete replacement for any reasonable expectation of reliability. Cooling may be a contributing factor.

I can't find production numbers, but I think the hybrids are relatively rare. I did find that only 533 2012 Tahoe hybrids were sold vs. 70,000 of the regular. Escalade +Yukon hybrids totaled 1,200 vs. 40,000 of the non-hybrids.

Many callers have indicated that the dealer says, "I've never seen one of these before."

I would speculate that you're dealing with a "specialty" vehicle for which there is little training and even less actual experience. As we're near the 10 year mark, failures are going to be more common, and dealers will be forced to learn something.

I hope Hillbilly chimes in... :)

Re: New battery installed
 

As a point of reference, ELR certified cadillac dealers are escalade hybrid literate. That also goes to the volt and bolt dealers.

Re: New battery installed
 

Good info I am considering a Tahoe hybrid!

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Two things to check for when buying a used Tahoe. If it's an 08-09, ensure that there is no camshaft damage. Get a Tech II on it and check for misfires - particularly in Cylinder #8. If it shows a misfire, then avoid the vehicle. If it doesn't, then get a full engine oil cleanout, even if you pay $500 for it, then switch and stay with full synth.


The other issue is the battery (All years). If the vehicle hiccups or stalls when accelerating from a stop, then the battery is wearing down. You'll likely not have ANY codes pop out for it. Just be aware.


Each of those two conditions will add around $4K+ to the cost of your vehicle.

Re: New battery installed
 

Great advice!

Re: New battery installed
 

Any more input on Greenbean? They have changed their warranty to a 5 year replacement, no more pro ration. How's their track record?

Re: New battery installed
 

Been nearly a year, and it is still working. I will say that my MPG dropped from around 19.2 to 18.8, but I think that's the way my wife drives it. But I haven't had any related issues since.

Re: New battery installed
 

BUMP

doing my own research and it appears after November 2017 now Green Bean offers full 5 YEar UNLIMITED Mileage full warranty..

Re: New battery installed
 

To be clear, November 12, 2017. I bought mine on November 11th, I'm sure...

Re: New battery installed
 

Sounds like GreenBean is the way to go with a full 5 year replacement? They come to you, almost like replacing a windshield, they show up and BAM done quickly., So what if it has to be traded out after 3 to 4 years? Who really thinks that a 10 yr old high mileage GM two mode Hybrid is worth spending big bucks on a new traction battery just to swell your chest and say NEW battery (putting lipstick on a pig LOL). Come On Man these Esckeys/Yukes and Ho's in almost perfect shape are selling for well under 10k just another old used unit that has extra liabilities.