Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

Sounds like we're pretty similar in opinions. Hillybilly is WAY out front in terms of sustainability provided he's not driving the truck beyond necessity. I'm working on being that guy with some property in Northern AZ except the F150 is too small. I got a '97 C2500 ELT with the 454 in it... 12mpg on a good day, but it doesn't get driven unless it's needed for hauling. It's hauled 1500# of partially filled IBC totes, 500# of 10' long steel angle for panel mounting, 700# of lead acid batteries, etc. Have the 6kW of solar, 10kW of split phase 240VAC inverters and 39kW of re-purposed PHEV Lithium batteries acquired and partially deployed. Greenhouse and aquaponics (for food) are on the to-do list (WAY down the line). Dwelling is current 2X RVs with a 40' shipping container providing storage and housing the "off-grid shore power" for the RVs.

Where we disagree somewhat is HEV/PHEV/BEV, etc. The end point is obviously BEV. The more steps between here and there means more waste, more cost and slower progress. I'm all for the manufacturers to determine the mix provided the end goal is well defined and reasonable. It's sustainability can simply the pace of the migration from one to the other.

I don't blame Nissan for scrapping those Leafs. What else would they do with them? Resale value on BEV is already poor. The Leaf has a poor reputation. Why would a manufacturer invest a lot of money into something that is highly unlikely to produce returns? I'm sure they were smart enough to take the meaningful BEV components and recycle what they could. There IS a market there. I would expect that that portions that were legitimately scrapped look rather the same as ICE cars in terms of what ended up as actual scrap. Could be that I'm just optimistic.

As a small business owner, I'm not inclined to engage in things that I KNOW will lose me money. I extend that courtesy to my vastly larger "brothers," though there is an expectation that the larger entities with the larger impacts take a "minimum harm" approach (as do I for myself). Moving the batteries to other applications, recycling the important BEV stuff and scrapping the rest meets this requirement.

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

Wow dude you're kicking butt and taking names (in a sustainable fashion lol) ! I love aquaponics, I have a hydro system right now, growing Coffee and Kratom (only the best lol) Did you know during WW2 people were required to build food gardens in there yards? I think we need to go back to that, I mean grass looks nice but what a waste of space!

My friend recently got a VIA VTrux extended range work van. It's a 2500 Chevy work van with tool boxes, power inverter, so many things. This thing is way ahead of it's time; apparently they only made about 200, this one only had 3k miles on it! Electric companies were buying them and running them as part of an experiment. It has a 15KW power off-boarding module! Vortec V8 hooked up to a huge PMAC motor/gen, and about 150KW traction PMAC motor/gen. We will make a video eventually of us charging a Leaf or Volt, from the van, just to demonstrate it's power. We also want to make a hook-up for natural gas, since we have natural gas lines here in MI, I always help people get there generators hooked up to the gas because it's so much better for so many reasons.

Yes I hope you are correct about the Leaf; I should probably go a little easier on Nissan, I use them as an example frequently but they have done some good things. I was thinking, what if somebody made a "Forever Car" sorta like the original Beetle, built for reliability, inexpensive, meant to be repaired or upgraded, a true "People's Car" They are still worth money today, yes as a classic, but also because you can actually fix them and drive it. What if somebody did the same but with BEV, PHEV, and HEV? Super simple (Bollinger like) designed for reliability, compatibility, future-proof or easily upgrade-able, modular (in some ways) What if we used them like classic bugs, just keep rebuilding it until the thing is finally smashed up. Imagine if we regularly got 1M miles out of these cars; those statistics and percentages I was talking about would change drastically for the better. If you made a 1 BEV that logged 1M miles, that would be equivalent to building 6.25 BEVs logging 160k each! Now I know that's not a simple thing to do; however they do it all the time with semi trucks. Those trucks are built for compatibility, reliability and they get run until they get smashed or are just totally trashed.

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Motors

Cool. What a beast. 201hp generator. WOW. I'm a bit drooly now.

All too familiar with the Leaf failings here. So many complaints of Leaf range dropping 30-40% in the first year due to the garbage thermal management in the Phoenix area.

IMHO...

I think the bug analogy is way too simplified. While the BEV power train is far more simple in terms of the number of major components, the components are BIG in cost and scope. It's very impractical to make an electric motor with replaceable modules analogous the the air-cooled "jug" of a VW cylinder. It would add cost, weight and likely be more expensive overall. "Throw away" (recycle when spent) manuacturing of these components is likely better from both a life cycle cost, overall reliability and overall efficiency.

I think you'll agree that the bug and other VW models of similar designs are NOT known for their 100K mile reliability. They're known for being "cheap" and "easy" to fix.

HEV and PHEV would be even worse. They are vastly more complex than a bug and would suffer from increased weight, increased cost, decreased reliability, decreased efficiency.

The concept is GREAT for independent shops and DIY consumers (that's pretty much why VW did it), but it's terrible for the average consumer and dealership. The "cult of VW" was relatively small compared to people that just want to drive a car and have it fixed when it breaks with LONG stretches between maintenance events.

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

part of the issue is leaving them out in the sun they bake the inside temp can get to 200F.. I left my Tahoe in the car port area... it never got above ambient temperature upto 95 degrees in the shade most of the time it was actually cooler inside the SUV then the outside...

i left the sun roof open all summer to vent the air. I also used one of those sun deflectors. for the front windshield

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

You are absolutely, positively incorrect. I drive a BLACK Prius in PHOENIX, AZ. I have deliberately tested this - windows up, no sunshade, facing south and west to insure the untinted front windshield faced the sun as much as possible (I moved the car twice to achieve this).

Interior was 150°F. Battery was 118°F. Ambient was 115°F.

Battery cools to mid to high 90's.

The issue is CHARGING/DISCHARGING a battery, which produces WAY more heat.

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

Hey! When you get a chance, can you look at my log? I was able to get the SOC up above 60 and after 20-22 minutes I could never get the SOC to go below 50-ish. After the 20-22 minutes, I put the truck in park, turned everything off as instructed, but the never declined and eventually started climbing. That's when I stopped logging. This is from an 08 Tahoe with 205k miles.

Thanks, in advance!

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

I'm guessing you did this in a CVS parking lot near hwy 92 and Woodstock? If so, delete the file.

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

Not sure about your description of events. The only thing I can see as useful is about the first 3 minutes of the test as after that, the car started recharging, so that's all I'm reporting on here.

The attached XLS has a chart in it. NOTE that I scaled the SoC by a factor of 0.2 so that I could get better visual scaling on the block voltages. It's mostly just there to show that the SoC is decreasing during the discharge test.

Blue line, SoC curve (left axis X 5)
Magenta line, Current (right axis)
Yellow line, dV, Total deviation across all 20 blocks (right axis)
20 thin lines, individual voltage blocks (left axis)

As you can see, the dV is never below 0.2 and as the discharge progresses, it climbs pretty dramatically indicating severe difference in block capacity. The reason you can't go below about 50% SoC is because the lowest block is in the 12.5V range, which is nearly empty, so the car restarts. SoC is an average of the 20 blocks. Block 1 is skewing it much higher than it actually is.

Note the HUGE dV spike at the right... that was a severe voltage drop when the car started the engine.

The spread in the block voltages is of concern. Note how V01 is all by itself. You likely have 2 "okay" modules in that position, but look how they start to rapidly diverge at about point 106.

Essentially, at any given time, a healthy pack will have ALL block voltages well inside the 0.3V gap between horizontal lines.

Lastly, the slow data rate is contributing to the extremes. It may be reporting a point every second, but I doubt it's actually collecting a point every second. The 4V spike in dV with engine start is likely exacerbated by the data rate, but that steady climb to 1.5V before the engine start is only mildly influenced by it. It's also about the trends... when you're dealing with a relatively constant current, the data rate has less of an influence on the accuracy.

In summary, your pack is exhibiting all the characteristics of a severely deteriorated pack suffering from widespread heat/cycling damage. All 40 modules require replacement. I'm amazed it's not coding every time you drive.

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

Hi - Would you mind taking a look at this battery data and give your expertise to it?

Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
 

You should delete the CSV file. It has your GPS data in it.