What if gas goes sky high???
#131
02-26-2008, 08:34 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
I got a plug-n-play converter box from here:
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront
The claims on the site are a bit overstated.
However, it does work.
My otherwise stock FEH runs great on E85, just with lower MPG.
The built-in Ford ( or any car ) ECU has the ability to change the injector pulse length between -30% and +30% from "normal" fuel/air ratio of 1:14.7 for gasoline. ( to adjust for load and altitude for example )
Running at +30% is 'almost' enough to run E85. In fact, your stock, factory FEH can run up to E60 right now.
However, to run E85, you need the injectors to fire +35% longer.
If the ECU tries to pass 25% the computer says, hey, this is unusual, something must be wrong, and a check engine light comes on.
So the factory possible range is about -30% to +30%.
( with -25% to +25% considered "normal"... or up to 29% in a 2008 )
Here's what the "add on" E85 box does:
It moves the injector range to -15% to +45%.
The car's ECU still controls everything in the car.
Ford's software is in full control of the air/fuel ratio, and emissions control.
Just now -15% to +45% is now considered the new "normal".
It was much simpler than I expected to run E85.
No hardware change is required.
Just a software "spoof" basically.
-John
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront
The claims on the site are a bit overstated.
However, it does work.
My otherwise stock FEH runs great on E85, just with lower MPG.
The built-in Ford ( or any car ) ECU has the ability to change the injector pulse length between -30% and +30% from "normal" fuel/air ratio of 1:14.7 for gasoline. ( to adjust for load and altitude for example )
Running at +30% is 'almost' enough to run E85. In fact, your stock, factory FEH can run up to E60 right now.
However, to run E85, you need the injectors to fire +35% longer.
If the ECU tries to pass 25% the computer says, hey, this is unusual, something must be wrong, and a check engine light comes on.
So the factory possible range is about -30% to +30%.
( with -25% to +25% considered "normal"... or up to 29% in a 2008 )
Here's what the "add on" E85 box does:
It moves the injector range to -15% to +45%.
The car's ECU still controls everything in the car.
Ford's software is in full control of the air/fuel ratio, and emissions control.
Just now -15% to +45% is now considered the new "normal".
It was much simpler than I expected to run E85.
No hardware change is required.
Just a software "spoof" basically.
-John
#132
02-27-2008, 05:53 AM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
Oil hits a high; $4 gas by spring?
Gasoline prices, which for months lagged the big run-up in the price of oil, are suddenly rising quickly, with some experts fearing they could hit $4 a gallon by spring. Diesel is hitting new records daily and oil closed at an all-time high on Tuesday of $100.88 a barrel.
Regular gasoline was selling at a nationwide average of $3.14 a gallon, according to AAA, The price has jumped 19 cents a gallon in two weeks. Energy specialists predict that as demand picks up further this spring and summer, retail prices will surpass the high of $3.23 a gallon set last Memorial Day weekend.
Diesel prices rose to a record $3.60 a gallon.
The price of oil has quadrupled in six years, and Tuesday's close was not far below the inflation-adjusted all-time high set in April 1980. That record, $39.50 a barrel, equals $103.76 in today's money.
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Gasoline prices, which for months lagged the big run-up in the price of oil, are suddenly rising quickly, with some experts fearing they could hit $4 a gallon by spring. Diesel is hitting new records daily and oil closed at an all-time high on Tuesday of $100.88 a barrel.
Regular gasoline was selling at a nationwide average of $3.14 a gallon, according to AAA, The price has jumped 19 cents a gallon in two weeks. Energy specialists predict that as demand picks up further this spring and summer, retail prices will surpass the high of $3.23 a gallon set last Memorial Day weekend.
Diesel prices rose to a record $3.60 a gallon.
The price of oil has quadrupled in six years, and Tuesday's close was not far below the inflation-adjusted all-time high set in April 1980. That record, $39.50 a barrel, equals $103.76 in today's money.
.
#133
02-27-2008, 06:36 AM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
You know what? I don't get real excited over gas prices, yet.
It's not that expensive... compared to other things.
Look how the price of homes has gone up.
The price of cars has gone up.
I paid more for my FEH than my parents paid for their 4 bedroom, 2 car garage house... in ORANGE COUNTY, CA. That was 35 years ago, but it was "prime" real estate even back in the 70's. They paid $25,000 for their home, now apprasied at $800,000. Suddenly, gas moving from $1 to $4 does not look unusual.
Really, gas prices are just coming up to "normal" and have been artificially deflated for decades. Or has everything else been inflated for decades?
I am glad my hybrid takes less of it, whatever the price.
Still...
It's not that expensive... compared to other things.
Look how the price of homes has gone up.
The price of cars has gone up.
I paid more for my FEH than my parents paid for their 4 bedroom, 2 car garage house... in ORANGE COUNTY, CA. That was 35 years ago, but it was "prime" real estate even back in the 70's. They paid $25,000 for their home, now apprasied at $800,000. Suddenly, gas moving from $1 to $4 does not look unusual.
Really, gas prices are just coming up to "normal" and have been artificially deflated for decades. Or has everything else been inflated for decades?
I am glad my hybrid takes less of it, whatever the price.
Still...
#134
02-27-2008, 07:53 AM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
Really, gas prices are just coming up to "normal" and have been artificially deflated for decades
#135
02-27-2008, 02:46 PM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
If it were only gas, that would be fine. But gas/diesel prices affect EVERYTHING. That's why we had 7% inflation last year, and so far this year we're running at 12% inflation.
The price of everything is getting out of control, and Congress hasn't raised the minimum wage in 12 years. So it's not a consumer-driven inflation. It's on the producer side, all the result of transport costs of raw materials to the factories and finished products to the retailers.
Even people who don't own cars and never travel still pay for higher oil prices.
.
The price of everything is getting out of control, and Congress hasn't raised the minimum wage in 12 years. So it's not a consumer-driven inflation. It's on the producer side, all the result of transport costs of raw materials to the factories and finished products to the retailers.
Even people who don't own cars and never travel still pay for higher oil prices.
.
#136
02-27-2008, 04:28 PM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
Congress hasn't raised the minimum wage in 12 years
The minimum wage was passed by the House and the Senate on May 24, 2007 as part of HR 2206, the supplemental aid to the Iraq War. As part of the deal, $4.8 billion worth of tax breaks are going to be given to small business over a 10-year period to offset the wage increase. The bill was thus ultimately enacted as a rider to the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act of 2007. President George W. Bush signed the bill on the next day
Last edited by Mark E Smith; 02-27-2008 at 04:30 PM.
#137
02-27-2008, 06:17 PM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
That law is a massive deception:
The minimum wage goes from $5.15 to $7.25 in 2009. Right now, it's BARELY higher -- $5.85 instead of $5.15.
Later this year it goes to $6.50, then next year it'll finally hit $7.25.
So, while the current 70 cent increase certainly represents "a raise," I defy you to show any meaningful effect on anyone's life. Workers will have to hang on until the middle of next year.
Anyway, the point was that today's inflation is NOT the result of any artificial government influence on the wage structure of the nation. It's largest influence is the price of oil.
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The minimum wage goes from $5.15 to $7.25 in 2009. Right now, it's BARELY higher -- $5.85 instead of $5.15.
Later this year it goes to $6.50, then next year it'll finally hit $7.25.
So, while the current 70 cent increase certainly represents "a raise," I defy you to show any meaningful effect on anyone's life. Workers will have to hang on until the middle of next year.
Anyway, the point was that today's inflation is NOT the result of any artificial government influence on the wage structure of the nation. It's largest influence is the price of oil.
.
#138
02-28-2008, 08:06 AM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
It's largest influence is the price of oil.
My business is affected by the minimum wage and I will have to raise my rates because of it even if oil had not gone up! There is a domino effect as minimum wage goes up those who are within $3.00 to $4.00 dollars an hour of the minimum wage feel they need a raise also. My vendors will have to charge more for their deliveries or end them as they use part time college students. Fast food companies will have to raise their prices or go to more automation. Illegal aliens will be highered at a greater rate because they can be hired for a lower cost (no taxes, workmans comp etc) Those who think an increase in minimum wage does not cause inflation or a rise in prices have never run a small business!
BTW I have no one that works for minimum wage.
Last edited by Mark E Smith; 02-28-2008 at 08:08 AM.
#139
02-28-2008, 09:34 AM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
Certainly, the minimum wage increase will have a domino effect.
Guess what -- so does inflation. For instance, when the minimum wage remains stagnant for 12 years, while the price of everything increases, it has a domino effect on everyone who works for min. wage.
Every year, their wages are worth less. Every year, they have to sacrifice to accomodate inflation.
While your statement is correct, "Those who think an increase in minimum wage does not cause inflation or a rise in prices have never run a small business!" The following statement is also correct:
Those who think that NOT increasing the minimum wage will prevent inflation haven't bought a house, a car, food, gasoline, or paid utility bills in the past 12 years.
.
Guess what -- so does inflation. For instance, when the minimum wage remains stagnant for 12 years, while the price of everything increases, it has a domino effect on everyone who works for min. wage.
Every year, their wages are worth less. Every year, they have to sacrifice to accomodate inflation.
While your statement is correct, "Those who think an increase in minimum wage does not cause inflation or a rise in prices have never run a small business!" The following statement is also correct:
Those who think that NOT increasing the minimum wage will prevent inflation haven't bought a house, a car, food, gasoline, or paid utility bills in the past 12 years.
.
Last edited by 1stpik; 02-28-2008 at 09:44 AM.
#140
02-28-2008, 10:27 AM
Re: What if gas goes sky high???
Are we arguing on the same side?
Minimum wage is a feel good law as VERY FEW work for minimum wage. Wages are set buy the value of the work and the availability of workers. One of the problems in my business is the lack of skilled workers because of low wages. The wages are low because the consumers will not pay a higher rate. So I compete with easy jobs that pay near the same, and I am loosing. My industry will change very soon and the consumer is going to be shocked once it shakes out.
Minimum wage is a feel good law as VERY FEW work for minimum wage. Wages are set buy the value of the work and the availability of workers. One of the problems in my business is the lack of skilled workers because of low wages. The wages are low because the consumers will not pay a higher rate. So I compete with easy jobs that pay near the same, and I am loosing. My industry will change very soon and the consumer is going to be shocked once it shakes out.
