Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

2 safety recalls. That's probably about average for a new, highly different auto such as a hybrid.

I had the door glass running-out-of-channel issue fixed under factory warranty.

I had the Control Arms replaced at 39K, with my extended warranty.

I had a sunvisor replaced also with my extended warranty.

I recently had an O2 sensor go out. I'm now well over the 36K warranty (48K), but have a HondaCare extended warranty. That's what they said they covered it under, not the emissions warranty. I suspect the emissions warranty should cover it, though. At any rate, 48K is WAY too soon for this to be occurring.

I still need to get 2 other TSBs taken care of...

I'm now glad I bought the HondaCare extended warranty (8yr/120K/$0 deductible). I have a feeling it will more than pay for itself, if it hasn't already. I've now seen way too many issues with enough of us to be without it. It's possible Honda "goodwill" will cover ALL of these issues, but I'd sure not count on it.

Many of Honda's TSBs didn't come out until WELL into the 2nd or 3rd year of this series - too late to be covered under your "now just expired 36K" warranty - even though many have been well-known issues since early to mid-2006. Examples:
(1) TSB 06-014, TSB date 2007/09/07 - Front Door Glass Comes out of the Channel.
This was occurring with such frequency BEFORE the TSB that many dealers stocked tons of extras for warranty replacement. What took Honda so long here?

(2) TSB 08-001, TSB date 2008/02/08 - Uneven or Rapid Rear Tire Wear.
This INCORRECT PART CONTROL ARM ISSUE took Honda until Feb. 2008 to admit to! Ridiculous. Just look under ANY Civic from 2006-2008: oops, there it is, the bad-design part. The TSB make you go through hoops with visible irregular tire-wear, when the issue is simply the bad part IS ON YOUR CAR.

(3) TSB 08-023, TSB date 2008/05/16 - Sunvisor Comes apart or splits when moved.
This was also occurring on all Civics and was well-known before the TSB.

(4) TSB 08-051, TSB date 2008/08/06 - DVD Read error, or no route display, And DVD is Scratched.

(5) TSB 08-057, TSB date 2008/08/23 - Brake System makes short, buzzy grunt when the brake pedal is pressed.
Here's our long-known brake fart issue.

(6) TSB 09-003, TSB date 2009/01/16 - Trunk Spoiler Scuffs or Chips the Trunk Lid.
OMG how long has this been a known issue? Many have tried to get their attention. I've pointed out to several dealers myself this very issue on 2008 HCHs sitting NEW ON THEIR LOTS. Over 3 years to acknowledge the problem? Sad.

A few too many reports of IMA batteries dying an earlier-than-expected death. This is most disturbing. Does this occur with the Prius or the FEH?

It's all a little disappointing from my perspective, especially coming from Honda. Don't get me wrong. I love my car. I just feel lapses in quality control and Honda's slow admissions to them are unfortunate. I also suspect these slow admissions have cost many owners real money, rather than being covered on Honda's dime.

Agree?
Or is this just what we should expect nowadays?
Or is it that I just "know too much" about my HCH and its TSBs, and never "knew enough" about my other cars' issues and their TSBs?

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

[quote=gumby;200102]
A few too many reports of IMA batteries dying an earlier-than-expected death. This is most disturbing. Does this occur with the Prius or the FEH?

Honda owns the market in regards to the hybrid battery failing earlier than expected. This may be due to the "wider" range Honda allows between charging and discharging. I have only read of one FEH battery failing during my years owning my 2005 FEH.

It's all a little disappointing from my perspective, especially coming from Honda.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

Most of the failures that required a TSB take a while to find root cause and a fix - no TSB until there is a fix - many problems are acknowledged but no TSB yet because the fix is not formally approved. Most of the TSB above are not Honda Engineering faults but 3rd part suppliers. The sunvisor was quality of one of the suppliers, It took a while to find a replacement that looked the same. the front window glass was also a supplier problem.

The rear deck spoiler is a true Honda Engineering problem, They did not look at the heating cooling cycles for a defect in the paint, They looked for items that would fail too soon.

I have had contact with Honda Engineers for my Ridgeline and believe you me that they went over 50 ridgelines in St. Louis and looked at every complaint and took back parts and they fixed almost every problem. My complaint was fixed - my dealer said 4 hours and $650, they (Honda engineers and Huey Honda) fixed it in 5 minutes and for free ( ok the cost of driving to St. Louis 2 tanks of gas ).

Here is a link to some of the documentation - it takes about message 55 to see the work being done and lots of refreshment to do it. http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/f...ad.php?t=16453

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

Interesting though that only one of the recalls was related to hybrid parts--the other (the steering grease/brake light switch) was series-wide for the Civic.

I have to say that I'm a little bummed by this too. I've had my HCH at the dealership more times in 25k miles than I took my Ford Contour in 95k miles. I expected more from Honda based on their reputation. The HCH is only a little worse than 18k miles in my Subaru Outback though (which had one recall, one TSB and one warranty-repaired wheel bearing) before I sold it.

That being said, the HCH is still the best car I've ever owned, and the ownership experience has been excellent despite the hiccups you detailed above.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I agree with the lower than normal Honda quality. I've had a navigation failure on my HCHII at around 12-15k miles. It took a really long time for it to be replaced. I've recently went to the dealer for service and they apparently fixed the loud vibrating dash sound.

I disagree that I am happy with the HCHII, I am quite the opposite, very unhappy because to me, quality is the most important thing when it comes to a car. As a result of these issues, I would rate my overall satisfaction at 3 out of 10 (and only because the navi is actually really good when it works).

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

does anyone know if the brake fart noise is a safety concern?
I really don't care much, as long as the car stops like normal.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I'm positive it is a noise that the car has. I don't believe it is a default with the HCH2. Probably something to do with ANTI-LOCK brakes?:confused:Hal

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

TSB 08-057 (September 26, 2008) implies that the Brake "Fart" is indeed an issue. I doubt it's truly a saftey issue, or else (eventually) a Safety Recall would likely occur.

This TSB states the cure is a replacement of the Master Cylinder and Servo Unit Assembly (servo set). 2.5 hours of labor.
This sounds like an expensive repair for Honda to do. They state it is likely caused by brake fluid pulsation within the AHB (advanced hydraulic booster) when the brake pedal is pressed.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

Good luck in duplicaiting the sound when you get the car to the dealer! I have never heard of this actually being repaired!Hal:shade:

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

My freind just traded in his Insight 240,000 miles for a Fit got 2,500 trade-in the dealer just put it on his used lot for 9,700 and the mileage wasn't turned back.
Then main problem he had was it failed pollution testing 2 years ago had to cough up for new cats and senors.
I hope my 08 will due as well, our history is drivem until they drop most of our car's reached 200K but they were history.

The worst car/truck we had for recall's was our 98 ford explorer. Major saftey problems was sticking cruse control, fire from brake sensor, and blow out firestone tires, plus a few non-safey items.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I can agree with almost all of that, Spinner. I think these still are fine cars, just not quite up to the old Honda standards that I remember from my first one. I'm still happy I bought it.

Poor design on the spoiler issue, plain and simple. And 3 years to come up with this weak "fix" just razzes me a little. The true fix is simply a better, tougher, less-flexing spoiler, & repaint. Wow. How hard is that? That didn't take me 3 years to figure out. In fact, I think I mentioned this solution long long ago on this very forum.
And it IS pretty obvious when waxing your car. At least on Magnetic Pearl paint, it is. And eventually, it might become a rust issue. It would be very obvious then.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I haven't noticed that issue at all. Is it just when getting in/out or is it squeaky during driving?
The window channel thing is a well-known issue by Honda. I think it affects all Civics not just the hybrids. I think they said the newer ones have had it addressed at the factory.
Almost 52K miles on mine. Still doing well.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I have nearly 70k miles on our 06 civic hybrid and none of your issues. I haven't had a single problem, I have also ignored the recall notices because I am not happy with my local dealer.....

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

Same here. Best car I've owned. Unless something serious breaks, I'd much rather do it myself... so like you, no dealer will likely ever touch my car for recalls or anything else.

The only "problem" I've had in 40k on my 2006 is an occasional rattle from the driver's seatbelt top anchor point. Just touch the height adjuster and it's fine for a few more weeks!

Of course, I wish there were some design improvements on the car (like a way to force it to autostop whenever you want!)... but those aren't quality issues. The car is performing as designed.

By the way, I've worked in the OE automotive business for 30 years. A "field fix" or even a "recall" doesn't mean that every part or every vehicle will fail. Most such items have failure rates of 5% or less. Many recalls are for items with failures well below 1%... but they're forced to address the issue because they are safety or emission related.

I don't know about these specific items (since I don't work for Honda), but I'd bet that 95% or more HCHII's on the road don't have any fault whatsoever with door glass channels, rear control arms, spoiler paint, brake farts, etc.

That said... if you DO have a problem with one of those known issues, (and the part isn't beyond it's normal design life) then they should take care of it without making it difficult for you. If the dealer won't cover the cost on an out-of-warranty field fix, then contact Honda owner relations for assistance and ask to talk with the zone / district service manager if you don't get the answers you want.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I know I had nothing but trouble with my 06 EX Sedan. I had a grasp on the rear control arm issue within months of owning it. Not to mention all the other issues with it.

If the new HCHII shows any issues. It's gone! I dumped my 06 Civic for a 07 Mazda3. The Mazda does everything better than the Civic except,,, MPG.

No more Honda junkers allowed here.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I have 42k on my 2007. I visited the dealer once to check on the rear control arms - they said mine were not part of the TSB. I live less than 5 miles from the dealer.

So no problem here....

On another matter - don't dealers do amazingly well with used car trades and resales? We just sold a 96 civic and bought a 2007 Accord - we saved just about $5000 by doing it all private market and the Accord only has 25k miles so there isn't even a warranty concern. We sold to the first person that saw the civic (that responded an hour after a craigslist ad) and we looked at 4 cars total - that did take some driving around. Total cost was $10k ($13,400 and $3200). It easily would have been $15k at a dealer.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I've been wondering the same thing. My 07 HCH now has 32k miles, and I have already had 5 quality issues.

Rear control arms - enough said about that already, and no, they wouldn't replace my prematurely worn tires.

Spoiler scuffing - dealer finally "fixed" this, but only took 2 weeks for the problem to re-appear.

Right rear window motor failed - replaced.

Sun visor failure - Dealer replaced, but I was told there had been no correction of the problem. Also was told warranty for visor replacement was extended to 72k miles.

Center console latch failed - this just happened last week. The console won't stay down unless it's extended all the way forward.

Very disappointing, but the bigger concern is that such a wide variety of issues on one vehicle makes me think there is a systemic, company wide problem with quality. How many more parts of my car will be affected by this after warranty expires?:(

Honda's reluctance to admit and address issues is also a concern.

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

Mine has the window issue, the rear control arm issue and the cover over the vent in the front on the right side will not stay in place so i just pulled it off. blah!

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

My wife and I have both owned Honda's since the late 80's. All have achieved over 250,000 miles with minimal maintenance - oil, tires, batteries, lights, clutch, belts and standard wear and tear. Never any major problems. We bought an 07 HCH and and 08 HCH, and both had the rear control arm issue, and the 07 has the window problem, but is out of warranty - 45,000 - I like the car, but I don't like how Honda and the dealer don't notify you about the issues. I took my car in for the control arm issue and mentioned the window problem - I had researched the control arm and was prepared to argue if they wouldn't cover it through the goodwill program - I didn't haggle over the tires - I just wanted the proper parts installed. After taking some time they were able to get the work approved. However, they came back with a quote for $843 to fix the window - the "advisor" said they would have to replace the glass, the regulator, and the track. I asked why they would have to replace the glass and the "advisor" could only say that the regulator is attached to the glass - this made no sense, since there is nothing wrong with the glass. I decided not to have the repair done until I did a little more research.The "advisor" made no mention of TSB 06-014. I did my window research over here and of course there is a known issue. The reason they have to replace the glass is because it is not to spec. Now I have to take my car back in and fill out the goodwill paperwork again and keep my fingers crossed that they will replace the window for no charge. This affects both front windows, but the lesser used passenger side won't fail until much later, at which point Honda will say - it happens! OF course my 1990 Accord with 295,000 miles on it, never had an issue with any of the windows!

Now I have to seriously consider purchasing the Extended Warranty for the 08 - I don't think Honda cares as much as they used to about quality - the reason they have a 36,000 mile warranty is because they are coasting on past success. I think they are going to be losing customers due to lower quality.

I can no longer say how wonderful Honda is after having experienced the latest issues with buying brand new cars - they aren't making them like they used to - bummer!

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

Hi twohch
It sounds to me like you should look for another service department? I don't think Honda Mtrs. is the problem? I have to agree Honda is having issue's with the IMA system however. Prius seems to have a bullet proof pack where as Honda's pack is suspect?
I have been concerned about this issue with my HCH2[IMApack, CVT] so yesterday I went and checked out the Prius 3. Nice car but not near the fit and finish of the HCH2? :omg: I purchased my first Honda in 2006 after testing the Prius first. I would still purchase Honda again today!:D Hal

Re: Is Honda quality slipping? Or is this normal?
 

I have a 6 yr 100,000 warranty, thank goodness. My 06 HCH car is just over 4 years, 49k miles and I have already topped the value of the HondaCare warranty price since the 3 year mark; most recently it was the fuel sensor. You will notice the reliability rating of the Civic Hybrid on Consumer Reports this month slipped from the last few years. And now with the batteries looming out there I will probably trade mine in right at 6 years for a Ford Fusion hybrid. It is too bad since I love this car but if I wanted lack of reliability I could have kept my Volvo (other than the mileage difference).