How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I've been thinking. If you look at the data for our HCH II's, the median mpg is 47 mpg. Now, if you look at a hypermiler, or say, someone who is just OBSESSED with squeezing EVERY possible mile out of their tank (and you all know who you are), the best hypermiler at the moment for our car is 63.9 mpg. Take a look at this way. Now, this is the extreme case. But in a tank of gas, say 13 gallons (since our tanks hold about 12.9, but lets just say 13). You're getting 830.7 miles per tank. If you're the median, you're getting 611. Thats a difference of 219.7 miles. Great, but at 63.9 mpg, you're only saving about 3.43 gallons per tank, or about 8 or 9 bucks depending on your local gas price (here in So Cal near the Inland Empire it s averaging about 2.38 right now, so about 8.18 dollars per tank. Sounds like a lot yes, but other than people pushing 60+ mpg (lets move down to say, 52 mpg, just above hypermiler status) you're only saving about 65 miles per tank, or about a gallon and a quarter. Thats 2.97.

When you factor in the EFFORT and slower speeds and the constant attention you have to pay to all the gauges and your speed, it doesn't really seem worth it, at least not to me anyway. If you take a more accurate example, the average HCH II driver going at or around the speed limit will get between 40-42 mpg. The moderate hypermiler, not giving it TOO much effort, but still trying, will land somewhere around 47-49 mpg in our cars. The difference is about 7 mpg, or about 1.93 gallons per tank, a total of 3 bucks between them. Personally, if I'm running late somewhere, I'd rather spend the extra 3 bucks (less since that would be the WORST possible case to get that kind of gas mileage, only when you drive that way ALWAYS). So I guess to sum it up, if you're running late somewhere, you're throwing away about 50 cents every time, roughly estimated....doesn't seem worth my time to me. When I'm running late to work, every minute I'm late potentially costs me 33 cents. I'd rather be on time and waste the 75 cents then be 5 minutes late.

I guess when I stopped to think about it, the numbers didn't justify how much effort and attention to driving economically I have to do just to sustain those numbers. I guess I bothered to write this down because I was bored at work too. So I decided to stop trying so hard, and just enjoying my car more. Anyone else give up on getting the BEST possible gas mileage ???? Please share. And for anyone who likes they're 63 mpg, why, other than obvious bragging rights ???? I'm not knocking it at all, good for you, just curious....

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

It's partly the challenge, partly the bragging rights (not on GreenHybrid, since I'm nowhere near the top here... but at the office and with friends!). It's also trying to save some fuel to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. One gallon a week may not be much, but if everyone did it, it would sure add up!

Lastly, it's a "calmer" way to drive, which I'm now enjoying. I drive slower and my blood pressure goes down, too. No more worries about beating out the jerk in the next lane. No more worries about getting a speeding ticket. Actually, with the carpool lane access, I'm actually going faster than I would be in my old SUV. Best of all worlds!!!

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Jeesh, I pick up my HCH-II in the morning and everyone is all negative around here lately!

;) :D

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Last summer I averaged around 66MPG in my HCH 1 CVT. I drive about 38,000 miles/year. I passed my year's single tank goal, as reflected in the photo of my signature below of 1,003 miles and 74.9MPG (Calculated).
So why did I go to such extremes for that tank? While it isn't as grand as an Atlantic crossing certanly was my own personal Lindbergh.
Also using "mild" economy techniques my wife and I raised our Grand Caravan from about 16MPG to around 22.

If I'm not driving for efficiency I don't have a clear consience that I'm not doing my part in reducing our families energy bills.
Our previous car was a 4cyl Dodge Spirit spending us dry at 16-18MPG.

We all enjoy our rides differently. Like many here I formerly enjoyed the thrill of acceleration and speed. All my previous cars was boring within 6-9 months- and getting there became somewhat of a chore. The same old thing.

3 Years of training for efficiency and 82,000 miles later has held back the boredom almost completely. I pollute less and put cash in my pocket.
I can't think of a better way "to go". Personally.

Let's look at my own situation at $2.00/g for 82,000 miles at 64MPG.
I've consumed 1,281 gallons of fuel. That's a total of $2,562
How about GH's average for my own car at 46MPG?
1783 gallons consumed for a cost of $3,566
It's a difference of over $1,000.

Since I hope to keep my cars for 10 years it will have at least 350,000 miles. I don't think calculating at $3.00/g is unreasonable in that case.
5,469 Gallons for $16,407 @ 64MPG
7,609 Gallons for $22,827 @ 46MPG
$6,420 Saved.

Because I've mentioned driving the GC differently, let me calculate that as well based on 10 year life span and 150,000 miles @ $2.50/g and 22 vs 16MPG:
6,818g $17,045
9,376g $23,437
That's almost $6,400 saved by using only basic, simple economy techniques.
I've hypermiled it to over 30MPG but isn't usually the case as it's my wife's primary vehicle. (She has minimal interest in economy)

Not bad for driving a way I've grown to enjoy.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

My savings are based on the car i gave up to get the hybrid.
I sold an integra type R. I was getting about 21 MPG and it required premium.

I keep a detailed spreadsheet to determine exactly how much I am saving in real dollars per tank. Right now my average is at just over $28.00 per tank.

at 3-4 tanks per month that is nearly 100 per month in gas savings. Now my payment is higher now, but i perceive that as a shift in expense from oil companies to a car company. To make the issue seems even more noble I like to think that my purchase of a hybrid now will help encourage the development of even better technology.

additionally my insurance went from 1100 per year to 500 per year, so thats another 50 bucks per month my hybrid is saving me. Tires are cheaper, the maintenance schedule is much more relaxed and the car is nicer to drive.

I know your just talking about gas savings, but your comparing the real MPG of the hybrid to the potential MPG, I think it would be more accurate to also factor into the equation the alternative vehicles, the one you had or the others you would have purchased to get an accurate picture of the difference is dollars spent between the two options.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Since getting my HCHII, and selling my '01 Nissan Sentra, which got 31 highway, and about 27 on average for the type of driving I do daily, I've saved over $730 in gas. That's in 4 months.

Works for me!

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I'm going to chime in despite my non-hybridness because I keep track of these figures obsessively, and have set up spreadsheets to estimate how I would be doing with one of the hybrid options.

I used to have a year-long average of 30mpg driving the way I did. Since putting in the extra effort I have average 38mpg, and I think that I will end up with a year-round average in the range of 35-36mpg. That amounts to roughly $30/mo saved in gas money. But in 8 months that's also 92gal of fuel that I didn't burn and 1600lb of CO2 that I didn't add to the atmosphere. Those last two numbers are at least as important to me as the $256 savings. The sense of personal accomplishment is priceless.

I think that I could reasonably expect to push 55-60mpg out of a HCH after learning its tricks and putting in the same effort that I do now. @47mpg, I would save an additional $22 monthy vs. this car. @ 55mpg that number jumps up by another $14. Not nearly enough money to justify trading up on pure economics, but better than the proverbial sharp stick in the eye.

Thing is, what would happen if everybody made a little extra effort? How much fuel could be saved nationally? A lot. Likewise, things go the other way if everybody decides they would rather burn the fuel than drive a little better. One person's extra gallon doesn't sound like much, but multiply that by the hundreds of millions of cars in North America alone. It has to start somewhere.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Well Luis...

You ask how much money are we really saving?

Then someone would ask... Relative to what?

For many us driving a high fuel economy vehicle is a significant shift from their previous vehicle. From a financial standpoint, we stand to make the most out of our new car. Along the way we also discover that with the help of the technology in the vehicle, driving can be fun in a way we never though possible. Our love affair and the desire to better ourselves carries so many benefits that I only hope it could be more like a contageous disease or a wildfire.

Then there are those of us who were always striving for fuel efficiency because of what we believe to be right. Cost benefits are less relevant because FE did not change that much compared to our previous vehicle. In consistently choosing a fuel efficient vehicle we are just perpetuating our values of social and environmental responsability. Many of us subscribe to the "Choose the right tool for the right job" principle and it definitely applies to the automobiles we drive.


Now, addressing the remainder of your statements:

As I see it, hypermiling is the proverbial "Cherry on the cake". It can be a healthy thing to do provided that it does not violate any laws or affect others in a negative way. In any case, it is a mostly positive porsuit as it benefits the driver and - in a smaller way - the rest of us.

Yes, some people work too hard at it and their incessant bragging can be annoying if not a total turn off. Just ignore these instances if possible.

But when looking at these issues, I would encourage you to also see the larger number of us who drive the very same vehicle you do. We enjoy and appreciate our cars primarily because of the financial benefits (no matter how small or large these may be), what they represent, and the opportunity to set a better example.

I hope you enjoy your vehicle as much as you can and resist the temptation to measure your contribution in terms of numbers alone. There are so many good things we do in life that cannot easily be measured by just numbers. I belive THIS is one of them !


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Well, while I did experiment for a time with achieving the absolute best mileage that I could, including driving significantly slower, I agreed that it was not worth the extra time and hassle to go all-out with hypermiling. What I do now is that I apply driving techniques that do not cost any exrta time, thus they are essentailly "free" savings (whereas driving say 55mph on the freeway would be trading off time and significant hassle for fuel economy). Things such as anticipating traffic signals, driving with load over the hills to keep the engine RPMs in an efficient operating range, and minimizing jack-rabbiting help significantly, and should actually reduce general wear and tear on the car as well. On freeways and roads however I will go with the flow of traffic.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

As Msantos mentioned it's kinda fun to hypermile. I was worried that having a CVT would make the car boring to drive, but employing basic hypermiling techniques really makes driving the HCH an engaging experience. As it is, I have a choice of driving my wife's hybrid or my turbo Outback (which is very "engaging") on most days and I always choose the Civic. I'm curious to see if this wears off a little once I'm more used to the car, but I don't anticipate that happening.

That being said, if I'm in a hurry, I wouldn't hesitate to dump the milage and drive like a "normal" person again :).

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I didn't do it for the money-savings.

I did it for the Earth-savings.

I pray for +$5/gallon.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Bottom line everyone has to do what feels appropriate to them...

I have driven both sides of the spectrum in my HCH, and must say that there is a happy median... for me that is more towards fuel economy, but not so much that I annoy others with extreme slow poke habits. Nor am I going to drive 70MPH on the highway just to keep up with trafffic... If I need to get somewhere or wish to pass, I may drive 75 or 80MPH because I wish to, not to please others on the road, or move with the flow, or other lame reason...

Oh, and to answer the main question in the thread title, I figure that I am saving $100/month over driving my "other" choice, and that would have been a Civic Si. Premium fuel and I would have NEVER gained the insight I have with the ownership of the Hybrid! No regrets here, though I do admire the 4dr Si...

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I have had my 06 HCH for a full year now. I have saved $1300 in gas over my previous vehicle, a Ford Ranger.

I have traveled 18,000 miles, with a year long average of just over 48 MPG. Worse tank has been 43 mpg, best 52 mpg. Expenses have been 2 oil changes (one just a week ago), tire rotation with each oil change. I had my odometer fixed. It did not do the "reset", but it never kept an average. No problems with the new one. This was free, of course.

I have been happy, for the most part. Car does not like 100F days of Texas heat, which led to some of my poorest mileage. I have made some changes in how I drive, and my AC settings, which have helped increase my mileage in the last few months.

Worth the investment, regardless of gas saved, and lowest polution? You bet!!

Bob, Georgetown, TX

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Unless you do a tremendous amount of driving, it really does not pay to buy a hybrid.

My old gas gussling full size conversion van cost less overall per month to own than my HCHII, even though it only got on 11 or 12 mpg. Yes, my gas bill has gone down, but my insurance has more than doubled, I made a nice down payment and still have monthly payments to make for a few years that exceed my monthly gas expenditure with my van..

I knew all this before I purchased my HCHII. I think the choice to invest in a hybrid for most is not dollars and cents but total value. I made the decision to go with Honda because of the whole package - safety, reliability, styling, comfort, fuel economy, ecology, etc.. I went with the hybrid because I felt I would make back the extra investment over time and felt good about driving a virtually pollution free vehicle.

If one does a comparison to a non-hybrid Civic...
 

The numbers are not all that bad.

a 2007 Civic EX with Navigation is $21260.
a 2007 Civic HB with Navigation is 24920.
The 2006 Tax credit for the Hybrid is $2100.
On average most folks save about $100/mo in fuel costs.

In our case, our 07 Hybrid cost $24200 minus the tax credit is $22100.

We replaced a car that had 110,000 miles on it, and sold it for $16,000. So the actual incremental acquisition cost of the hybrid was $6100.

The old car cost about $250 - $300 a month in fuel costs, and we were projecting an annual maintenance cost of about $3000.

The Hybrid is running about $150 a month in fuel costs, and we project that the annual maintenance for the car will be about $300 (oil/filters/CVT fluid, amortized tire costs).

Insurance on both cars is a wash, with the Civic being slightly cheaper.

So the old car cost $6600 a year to operate, and the Civic is projected to cost $2100 a year to operate, for a net savings of $4500/yr. With that we see that break-even is at 16 months.

I have a feeling that the recent drop in oil prices is only temporary, and that over the next year the fuel savings cost will narrow the break-even point to a year. Plus in California, we can drive in the car pool lane, and our city gives Hybrid owners free parking passes on all the streets and garages.

Now if one does the same calculation with the Civic EX, the incremental acquisition costs are higher (though with discounts they may end up being the same), and the operating costs are higher due to higher monthly fuel costs. Break-even with that car would be longer.

Residual values on a Hybrid are higher than on a non-Hybrid.

All in all, purchasing a Hybrid on pure economic rational has merit, but so does just doing your part in reducing use of fossil fuels.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

aaaa about 1300 a year at 2.12/gallon average. But I also spend less time at gas stations, and looking for gas stations under "inconvenient" circumstances. Also musch less airpollution, and less petrodollars to nations that sponsor terrorism.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Thats easy move to europe!!

Here in the Netherlands we pay € 1,39 per liter, let me do the math for you. That is $ 1.85 per liter or $ 7.01 per gallon!

That takes care of your problem, please let me now if you need any help with making the arrangements. :D

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

We literally went from spending close to $400/month on gas to $150/month. Our vehicles used to be a VW Touareg (leaves turn faster than this vehicle) and a MB SLK230. The VW shook like a coke addict whenever it would pass a gas station; we were lucky to get 16MPG in the city (most of the time we were getting 14-15). The beast had a 26.4 gallon tank and would require premium. The gas light would come on around 300 miles; talk about pain at the pump! Replacing that with the HCHII was a very smart thing to do. My $60 fill ups once a week are now $20 every OTHER week. In our case, we are laughing all the way to the bank.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I never look at my gauges, lean burn, or drive with the load.
That is all too much trouble for me.
Yet, I average 63.1 MPG.
I’m # 2 in the database (BTW notice how # 1 stopped keeping track before it started snowing in Japan?)

I also find it very relaxing to drive gently.
I’m never late, so I never need to rush.
Low stress.

It is a mentality that affects my whole life.
I don’t try to do more than what is possible.
I live within my means and don’t expect myself to be superman in every way.
Life in a first-world country is too high-pressure.
We expect too much of ourselves.
I’ve opted out!
I’m very happy.

Also I think America is in trouble because we use too much oil.
I feel good that I’m doing the right thing by minimizing my consumption (while still enjoying all the selfish benefits of driving alone in a private car.)
If I was more PC I’d use public transportation, but I’m not.

Plus the less gas I burn the less emissions I produce which helps with the global warming problem.

But you should drive however you want.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
You don’t have to justify it or compare yourself to others.
People vary.

Peace!

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Thanks for offering to help?

I really pray that America sees $5/gallon. It's the only way to break our addiction.

Thanks for leading the way, BlueVFRank!

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Hey noflash,

It's funny that you mention $5 gas; I keep on telling my wife that $5 would do the US good. The average US consumer has a memory of guppy. When regular was $3/gallon, everyone abandoned their full sized SUV / trucks. When gas came down to $2/gallon, their sales increased almost overnight.

In Houston, I am constantly amazed at the number of full sized SUV with only one person driving it. I too pray for $5 gas. We are so spoiled to think that cheap gas is our right.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I know! It kills me that so many Americans are so short-sighted.

It's too bad the Dems wont have to cojones to up the gas tax.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

The other big savings we noticed is the savings in speeding tickets. We do drive much safer in our HCH II which also effects insurance rates, repairs costs, maintance costs, etc. How well it drives and how nice it looks for the buck is also impressive to us.

This is a fun litle car with its own allure
 

I always drive safely, but with the Civic, I just tend to drive much slower. With my Porsche, the fun of that car is driving very fast, and sportily. With the Civic it is like driving a nice comfortable video game. The objective of the hybrid game is get the highest score in the bottom of the Tach. Each game is a trip somewhere. I enjoy that as much as driving like a lunatic in my P-car.

My other fun little car:

http://www.gjlenterprise.com/avatar3.jpg

It gets 28 mpg at 80 mph

Re: This is a fun litle car with its own allure
 

Ah Gary you bring up good memories of my Porsches past (both Boxsters); memories of my German cabriolets past too (SLK's and Z3's as well). I have been scouring online for good 03 Turbos. It amazing how much they depreciate! I have also been looking at 996 Cabriolets as well. We radically switched our cars once I got married and realized that I wanted to start a family. I think my wife and I need to readjust and get a fun "us" weekend car.

Re: This is a fun litle car with its own allure
 

Ahh... if you have a Porshe, you also know how expensive car insurance etc. can be. :shade: Cheers!

Insurance, yikes!
 

The insurance on the Porsche is $690 a year and the Civic is $630 for the same period. If I had that extra $60 in the bank, I could buy almost 3 tanks of gas!:D

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Hi


I would like to get same advise from you.



I bought HONDA ACCORD Hybrid car 7 mths ago , and car has 7000, every moths around 1000K.



In first three moths (3K) I have good performance 6l/100km h-way and 9l/100km in City.

But after that in June something change and last month 11(h-way) and 16 in City!



I was calling customer services 5-6 times, they doesn’t want to talk about that, they told me:

Performance that advertising is not guarantee (I have employer. number and name who told me)

Also they told me this is because: whether, drawing, rain, tires…….,

I was tring to explain I have more 22 years experience , more that 50 cars in my life and I am Professional Eng in Mechanical /Electrical, difference can be off 10-2% but no 90-100%.



They didn’t believe me but they took car 10 days ago and they did same they test and result was 11.5 on h-way, and they told me that is normal.



I blow out and I rejected to take car back for this performance and it is more badly that regular car. The regular car is 7.5 on h-way and they told me that 11. 5 good and NORMAL!!.



They give me same small r. car ( I need pay insurance,)

I was calling after that them Customer Support and dealership and I told them that I will call TV, Radio newspaper if they give me car back with this result, and they testing car every day.

I heard that came two engineers two dealership from Plant and one from Japan to see the car etc…

Nobody call me after last Friday seven days ago!



I am so frustrated and disappoint abut this situation do you have any advise, how I can protect better myself as customer. I don’t like to get back refurbishment car!



Thanks

Dan

Toronto
ymsd@sympatico.ca

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Dan, I see you are in Toronto. For the season that we're in the mileage you are getting out of your accord hybrid is actually OK. Weather does play a big role especially for us canadians. For you it is even better than for some of us in the much colder provinces.

However, you say that the lower fuel economy started in June so scratch the weather as a main reason. Did you try contacting another dealership?

Oh, by the way, did your driving habits change? Could you tells us a little about that?

Also what is your tire pressure typically at? Do you monitor it at all?

belive it or not, the last two issues alone can help explain the discrepancy in fuel economy you report.

Cheers;

MSantos

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Msantos,
I see your lack of knowlege,
Test 11.5 on h_way was done when temp. outside 10C, and no rain for 100 km.
If you think that is good, I don't want to educated you

You can see that is big. difference between 11.5 and 6 that advetaisng, actually I had to sue Honda to get them to do something about my defective vehicle.
Thanks
D

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I'm sorry you see it that way Dan. I certainly did not intend to "educate" you.

In any case, I was just trying to be helpful by aluding to some of the obvious mistakes people make when they buy hybrids thinking that the car ought to be able to achieve the advertized mileage automagically on its own.

11.5 liters is not a high FE figure for a 3.x liter V6 powerplant. In fact the average consumption for a regular V6 accord is much higher especially in the winter months where it can reach and exceed 17l/100km. Heck, during the winter months my 2004 Acura EL with a 4 cylinder engine (1.7liters) consumes more than 13l/100km.

Additionally, you should not sue Honda for the advertized mileage rating. Instead if you want to be of fair principles and ethical as good engineers must be, you should sue NRCan. They are the ones who test the car and publish the ratings you complain about.

By the way, in case you are for real, where/when did you get your "degree"?

Then again, I could be wasting my time since you could be a "forum troll" looking for a cheap stirrup. Yes, I am probably wrong about this. ;)



Cheers;

MSantos

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Dan P,
I "see" your lack of courtesy.

If you'd read these boards even a little bit, before posting your callous response, you'd KNOW that MSantos is nothing if not knowledgable.

You ask for advice , then slam someone giving it. Get a grip, or get lost - that's my advice to you.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I didn't really buy mine to save money per se (although I went from consuming about 10 gallons/day to 3.5 gallons/day, so even at $3/gallon I was saving about $20/day) but it was to avoid having to stop for gas every other day - with the hybrid, I was filling up every 4th day.

That was when my commute was about 80 miles each way.

Now I am down to under 6 miles each way so I traded in my HCH II for a Full Size Crew Cab Pick Up 4x4! Figure I'll give someone else an opportunity to save money and the enviornment.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Sorry for asking, but ...

How can a full size pickup be of any redeeming value to yourself or the environment in a way that the HCH-II could not? I hope you never hookup a scangauge to the pickup - the truth will floor you for sure. ;)

Perhaps the pickup is the vehicle you really wanted anyway. Right? If so then your choice to trade in the HCH-II is understandable.

Cheers;

MSantos

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

I had actually traded in my pick up before I picked up the HCH II. I know I'm only getting about 12 mpg now, but it's what I like to drive. I respect people who want to drive a hybrid as well. It's just not my preference.

Figure since there was such a wait for hybrids (I waited about 4 weeks when I originally got my HCH II) that I would add it back to the market place. The dealer did get rid of it quickly - less than 2 weeks. Hopefully the person who bought it is getting a lot more use than I would have now that my drive is so short.

Best of luck to you - it was fun with a hybrid playing the mpg game while I had it.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

The best thing you can do for the environment is to shorten your commute. Driving around all day at 40mpg is not better than a short trip at 12mpg.

Re: How much gas and money are you REALLY saving ????
 

Nope... the best thing you can do is park the hybrid and go sightseeing on a bike ride!