yeah, this quickly circles back to the econo-hybrid vs power-hybrid debate.

IMO, there's room for all of 'em- even if some on both sides would prefer the other to be wiped out.

We all should keep in the back of our minds that even the HAH or HH are essentially still 1st gen iterations of what is undoubtedly the next large scale shift. So we need to take the lumps until we can vote with our checkbooks when a larger set of options exists that has the refinements we want.

And sure- there are always folks pushing the edges who just need the bare minimum and can surpass all of us. True in any field.

 

I have an '05 HAH with 4,500 miles on ... about 3.5 mo old.

When the car is "cold"; the first 10-15 minutes, the IMA doesn't
engage ... but after the gas engine is "up-to-temperature" it's
somewhat agressive. (The '06 has a slightly larger elect. motor
and is even more so.)

The Auto-stop also does not engage when the engine is "cold"

Reason? A cold engine is harder to start/ "boost" and the
batteries are only used at 60% capacity. This gives them a life
expectancy of 10-15 years (thus the 8-year warranty). If the
batteries/ elect. motor were used more aggressively, the
batteries might only go 2-3 years (85-90% duty cycle). Its a
trade-off. As batteries get better, the IMA will be utilized more.

Remember, these batteriers are worked HARD ... they tyypically
charge/discharge an average of 12 times in a one hour trip.
Much heavier use than say a laptop battery.

 

This is the thing that is the most frustrating aspect of the IMA--the fact that software changes alone could make a huge difference. Something like a few different stock driving modes for different scenarios might make a big difference, such as a "mountain" program, a "flat" program" and an "preserve-eco-at-all-costs" type program. Data from the nav system could even be used to switch between modes automatically.

Also, there are some insight drivers that have designed manual controls for the IMA, and as a result they've seen significantly better mileage and/or performance because it's possible to do things like use just enough battery to get over a hill, then charge it completely back up on the way down. Situations like that, a driver will always have an advantage in efficiency because they can see the road ahead of them.

 

It is amazing how many different opinions there are regarding the total power of each hybrid vehicle, as well as the gasoline engine & electric motor "balance of power".

My 2 cents: I wish my Prius had HALF the gasoline engine (750 cc 2-cylinder!), triple the electric engine power, and 5-10 times the battery storage with an optional plug-in trickle charger. (I would only "steal" power at work! Some people have space heaters on all day every day in the office - I would plug in my car instead. I'll unplug my car when the space heaters are removed from the office - what kind of jackass thinks 73 degrees is cold, anyway?) With an EV switch - I could go most weekends without starting the gasoline engine - that would be great.

 

Gotta love that low end torque that the IMA provides...crusing along down a hill at 45 mph in 4th or OD...reach the bottom of the hill and start back up hill and IMA pegs to the max while the transmisson stays in high gear...seamlessly smooth power band rather than the usual downshift or tranny hunting for the right gear as I have been accustomed to with past cars.

I love my HAH!!

 

*Exactly*

The problem now is that since they bragged about the 255hp, etc. they can't go that route anymore. Nobody ever releases a car with *less* hp.

4 cylinder with IMA would have resulted in a vehicle with better fuel economy and still plenty of performance.

 

Depends on where you drive too... in rural Nebraska the HCH would do better because it is mostly open road driving. In LA you might want a pure-electric mode during gridlock. I often wish my HCH could just drive in EV during traffic jams. As is I have to time it so that I hit autostop.

I think all hybrids should be able to drive in pure EV mode until at least 10 mph... that will help in gridlock which eats up gas.

 

I"m seeing a compromise between the two unfolding... I think a good compromise is to have the hybrid match the performance of the non-hybridized version while offering substantial gains in fuel economy and emissions.

 

That is a better approach (though a much more expensive one at this point) because the main advantage of a hybrid itself is using a small engine that can maintaiin speed, and an electric motor for excess power (For passing, climbing, etc) to eliminate efficiency losses caused by running large engines at low throttle. Ideally, all hybrids would use the minimum engine necessary, coupled with a much more powerful electric motor.

The other feature I believe Honda should add to the IMA, that would help the Accord more than any of their cars, is a clutch to separate the motor from the engine. That way, it can use regen with no engine braking, and could possibly get the car rolling from a stop on all electric, followed by pushing in the clutch and restarting the engine.

 

Tom you are correct. While IMA cars do include a backup 12V starter they lack a conventional alternator so you need the generator and DC to DC parts functioning.

IMA will run with a dead main battery pac while HSD will not. The pack will eventually go bad so in the long run being able to run without it is a big advantage for the Hondas (IMHO).