I would guess they use the 3rd-gen IMA mgmt as well; from what I read about the HCH auto-stop, for example, I know mine works a bit differently - it will continue to engage auto-stop if in stop/go traffic, for example (I understand the current gen HCH does not re-engage auto-stop unless you accelerate back to 20mph or above ?). So with the HAH version, you can crawl forward and keep engaging auto-stop until the battery pack gets low (saw this firsthand over the weekend

The other thing I note about the 'continual' auto-stop is that it pauses to make sure you're really going to stop, and waits until a second after you do come to a full stop to re-engage the auto-stop (which I thought was clever).

So, yes, I expect 3rd-gen IMA, and maybe even 'full' VCM in the new HCH (it has a rudimentary form of VCM now, from what I read / understand). To get "dramatically improved FE", to paraphrase the Honda rep, they're going to have to do *something* besides just improving auto-stop, I would think...

Best Regards,

 

Hi Mark:

___I agree with everything but the VCM. The HCH’s VCM works only when decelerating/regen. It doesn’t work at any kind of steady cruise while out on the highway unfortunately. I have asked this more then once around the web and the reply I keep hearing is that an I4 including the 2.4 i-VTEC on down doesn’t have enough power off of just 2 cylinders to maintain a steady fast cruise like your much higher HP equipped AH. I know Honda has done it but for the lack of power, it was abandoned. Instead of a 72 - 80 + mph VCM envelope like your AH, I would be willing to accept a 58 mph one from the I4 65 mph with higher pressure tires and 0W-20 possibly? The Car mag editors and the general public would roast Honda for that low a speed, fuel saving mechanism however

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

I wondered if an ICE could run efficently on 2 cyl (by efficiently, I mean 'usable in real-world conditions', not just 'with good FE') Looks like it's technologically feasible - that's great! Too bad we'll never see it offered to the public, though.

Like you, Wayne, I'd be very interested in it for a commuter car - (but not as an 'only car'). That being said, I hope HMC eventually incorporates VCM in every V6 they make - J30, J35, and anything else (maybe not in the NSX, since that's a 'pure' sportscar - but I'll bet even NSX owners wouldn't mind improved FE in cruise mode - whenever they happen to be in it...

The other thing I thought I'd mention, since you brought up 0W-20 - it's looking like Mobil1 discontinued it in favor of 5W-20 ??? Something tells me that while it may be an exact match for the filler cap label on my AH, it's not going to produce the improved FE that 0W-20 is known to do.
Now I know why there were just a few bottles of it on the shelf at the auto parts store the other day
I did buy it, but now I wonder if I should have gotten the 5W. Nah - I'll try it out in another 1500mi, then compare it to my 3rd oil change mileage when I'm forced to go (back) to the 5W. And then get upset when I notice a discernable difference but can't get my hands on 0W-20 anymore...

Cie la vie...

 

Haha. Just thought I'd mention this thread is #1 on Google for 2006 civic hybrid.

 

Hi All:

___A bit more information on the 06 Civic’s although it is still very slim … There is still talk of a DI-ICE for the Hybrid with an IMA of AH like design. More should be posted by this insider tomorrow?

2006 EL

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Things I'd like to see in the '06, wish I had in my '04:


I too would like to see them move the batteries so the seat could fold.

Definitely needs to improve the auto-stop. My city mileage crashs and burns when I get caught in traffic. I don't mind the restart, but make it shut off after I move 20 FEET, rather than get up to 10MPH. I'm tired of having to leave two car lengths open up in front of me, then lurch forward and slam the brakes, just to reset that **** auto-stop. Better yet, offer me a "KILL" button, that I could tap to FORCE auto-stop provided the batteries and engine restart abilities would otherwise allow it.

Let me decide if I want or need A/C with defrosters. Those lucky owners of '02 and '03 could reprogram the climate controls to allow manual override of the automatic A/C in defrost. The procedure only enables turning the indicator lamp on and off on an '04. Once the glass warms up, I don't need to keep dehumidifying the air on the glass, just keep warming it. Or at least make the A/C compressor run off the batteries, not the ICE.

AND, I would like to have the 2.0L engine from the Si, with "displacement on demand" or "variable cylinder management" or "V8-6-4" or whatever you want to call it. Let the 2.0L run on two cylinders on the highway or at cruising speed, let the IMA kick in around town sooner and harder, then have the other two cylinders for getting decent acceleration. Maybe have which two cylinders shutdown switch after so many revolutions to equalize engine wear patterns in the cylinders. Also, the bigger IMA from the Accord would allow the 2.0L to run a lot longer on just two cylinders than the current HCH IMA would. And half of the 2.0L is still the same 1.0L as the Insight! The IMA adds enough extra mass to the engine as flywheel that the "roughness" of only two cylinders shouldn't be noticable, and could even electrically smooth the roughness at low rpms. Or else give me the euro-Diesel with the IMA. Can you say 100MPG from a 5 passenger compact car???

Last but not least, A FIVE DOOR!!! Also Known As: A STATION WAGON!!! If the back of the Si roof was attached in place of the trunk of the HCH, what a killer car that could be...

Matt

 

Well, I think the logic of the auto-stop should be set up so that if the car is not in motion for more than a few seconds, no matter what, auto-stop is engaged. That way, if I pull up to a red light, a bunch of cars in front of me "creep" forward, and I follow suit, the car should start to idle, then after a couple of seconds, engage auto-stop. That way, I wouldn't just be hammering the starter by rolling, stopping, rolling, stopping repeatedly. But if I stop, roll, and wait for an extended period of time, the auto-stop should re-engage. The idea of having it be based on a certain amount of distance travelled is also good. All these suggestions are just software logic, and technologically there's no reason they shoudln't be included in the cars.

Another thing I'd like to see is a three-way toggle switch for the IMA mode:

1) Minimal assist -- Doesn't use "assist" except for very hard acceleration. For uphill climbs of multiple miles, it woudl run just off the engine, rather than running the assist a third of the way up, and "trickle charging" the remainder. That doesn't save me anything, it's actually a net drain on FE.

2) Normal IMA -- how the car drives normally.

3) Maximum IMA -- Always runs the assist at the highest level possible. For rolling hills or passing during freeway driving (both situations where IMA doesn't kick in full-throttle, even with the pack nearly full) it would be nice if the assist would (optionally) engage at a much higher intensity. This would lead to sooner battery depletion sooner, and subsequent "trickle charging", but if I want a lot of assist for a short time, this would lighten the load on the ICE a lot, saving gas.

If they really wanted to offer control, they could even have the dial be continuous rather than a three-way toggle, with "light assist" on one side, "heavy assist" on the other.

Finally, another thing I think would be good:

"Electric" Cruise control. Cruise control IMO should work by finding a steady RPM to run the engine at, then automatically feathering the amount of electric assist appropriately to maintain speed. Unless the energy necessary to maintain crusing exceeds the assist's potential, the engine could run at steady RPMs, saving gas.

ALL of those features would be possible without making any physical changes to the car-- just software changes. They could also make a potentially huge difference in fuel economy. With those features, I imagine I could average almost 60mpg rather than low 50s in my '03 HCH. (I take a pretty big hit going up the hill to my house every day, a climb which is not too long, but very steep--perfect for something like my "maximum assist" mode.)

 

Wayne,
They[Honda] have a DI-ICE that was put into the Odessys in Japan correct? (i think this is the 2.0 Lt that you keep refering to..please correct me if i'm wrong) A tuned up (if thats possible, not likely) or atleast an 'altered' version to give it a more correct torque curve to work for a car and w/ IMA would seem likely, or atleast an adaption. I could see the DI technology being placed in a slightly larger version of the existing ICE in the HCH [much to cramped to fit in now]. I personally think VCM would be possible, but it doesnt necessarily have to be going down to 2 cylinders, it could only cut off one (20% saving or so?) at times, the insight had plenty of power to cruise...with the new HCH design i think the CD would have been dropped a bit making it a bit harder to push through the air than the Insight, but less than the existing. With an implementation of DI (...65:1 lean...mmm), VCM (downhills on highway?), and fuel cutoff i think honda could gain alot of mpg easily...and make it alot higher for the 'hypermilers' of the world.

 

Everybody is talking about waiting for the 06 to come out with more power and better mpg. One of the big reasons I bought the 05 HCH is that the car is proven. Perhaps Honda is better than most as far as working the bugs out of a new car but I'd rather get a car later in the production cycle after the bugs are out for sure. Personally I wouldn't get the newer version till 07.

 

I'm of the opposite persuasion. I'm on my 4th Accord - with the exception of this one, I buy THE year of the new body style - usually THE week they come out. That way, I can look current for the 4 to 5 years I drive the car. Even this Accord is the first year of the hybrid... but not a new body style.

Although Honda has had a rare problem, *I've* never had a single one.

Wendy (wife) wanted the new Odyssey when it came out. No regrets. For both of us, these are the favorite vehicles we've driven.

You can certainly get an old body style cheaper, but some of that is offset in resale down the road. Basically, I just like to not be tempted to trade often, and this is the best way for me.

Neither right or wrong.