Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Hi everybody. I've had my HCH2 for a week and a half. After using up the first tank of gas, I decided to get an alignment just to be sure (you never know how a new car is when you get it).

It turned out that the alignment was really whacked out. The front wheels were each toed out 0.22 degrees (they should have zero toe. This is off by a mile). The rear left was toed in 0.11 degrees (a bit much, but not terrible), but the right rear wheel was toed out 0.18 degrees (rear wheels should NEVER be toed out). The alignment fixed all of this.

The bottom line? My first tank of 350 miles, where I babied the car, got 39.9 MPG (calculated at the pump). On my second tank, after the alignment, I stopped babying the car and punched it quite a bit, passing lots of other cars on back roads and running the A/C at times (I hadn't on the first tank). In spite of my flagrant abuse of the car, the second tank got 48.1 MPG (calculated).

I have a strong suspicion that a lot of our HCHs are not properly aligned when they're delivered to us. Unfortunately, most people assume that a brand-new car shouldn't need an alignment (that's what people all told me, until I did the alignment and found out how screwed up it was).

The moral of this story? Get yourself an alignment!

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Did you request that the dealer paid for the alignment?

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

That could be an interesting new twist for people to think about. Yesterday as I was driving on I-95 I began wondering if an alignment would be beneficial.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Gosh there must be a million things that could be wrong with my new car.

I'd better check them all.



I'm not doubting your experience.

It's just that it's a new car, and, well, there could be a million things wrong with it.

Frankly, I'm not going to worry about them.

Are you sure the people at the alignment place were not lying to you?

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

I did request that the dealer reimburse me for the alignment, but they said I have to go ask American Honda. They also said I don't stand a very good chance, because I didn't have the alignment done at a Honda dealer and it wasn't an emergency.

By the way, I'm very particular about alignment on all my cars, and the reason I took the car in was that I could feel it shimmying and dog-tracking very slightly. The alignment fixed that, and made the car feel much more straight-line stable on the highway and more composed over undulating roads, so kenny, that's how I know the shop wasn't lying to me. The other thing is that this shop is the absolute best place for alignments within 100 miles. They have the latest Hunter laser alignment equipment and have done very tricky custom alignment work for me before (modifying caster and camber on cars where it wasn't factory adjustable).

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

That's interesting.

Since taking delivery of my HCH in 8/05, I have noticed that the car jumps around in freeway lanes--something I've experienced here in southern california (we have grooves in many freeways). Previous cars have done this too, and a tire expert once said that it's the treads not meshing well with the road.

My first tank was 34mph, my second was 40mph, and it's gotten slightly better depending on circumstances.

Does anyone else feel the steering / road sensation is a little notchy or stiff compared to other cars? My earlier Hondas and Acuras did not have this...

Lansing

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Hogwash. There are all sorts of consumer protection laws that say you're allowed to have that work done by someone other than the OEM or dealer. If they gave you a car that was out of spec from the factory, then it is, by definition, non-conformant, and you're well within your rights to have it fixed.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

You have the right to perform maintenance at any facility of your choosing... but if you need a warranty repair, then Honda has the right to choose that facility because they're the ones paying. They cannot control independent repair facilities (neither their equipment, training nor diagnostic procedures), so it would be unfair for them to have to pay without a first-inspection opportunity in their own facilities (an authorized Honda dealer).

The only exception to this is for emergency repairs, where no authorized dealer is nearby and further operation of the vehicle or towing to get it to a Honda dealer would cause increased damage.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Hrmm.. so Ben may indeed be SOL, or have an uphill fight at the very least.

Lansing, I've noticed the occasional jump, but it's always been at times/places where it could have just as easily been a truck passing the other direction, or passing a rough patch of road, so I've got nothing that can be 100% blamed on bad alignment.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Much of what people might feel as a shake or shimmy is actually due to the low Drag Coefficient (Cd) for the Civic Hybrid. Small headwinds, tailwinds, side drafts and vortexes from other vehicles can cause the car to shake or shimmy with the low Cd combined with the light weight.

As far as alignment-it can get knocked out of whack while sitting in the container or getting rocked around on the car carrier on its way to the dealer or it could be out of whack from the factory.

I doubt that is something that is checked when the car is prepped by the dealer. I would have gotten the readings, then called the Honda dealer or Honda in Torrance before having the work performed. Even if you had to pay for the measurements, you could at least ask for reimbursement for that. As far as having the alignment done, that is usually considered a maintenance item unless it was a problem from go, in which case you should have brought it back to the original dealer or another Honda dealer before having any work performed. It does not fall under warranty.

If all else fails, and you can prove (which will be hard) that it was out of alignment from day 1, you could always sue in small claims court if you don't get a desired resolution from Honda or your dealer. Of course that could cost you a day of work, and that might be more than you paid for the alignment.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

A lot of this may simply have to do with having low rolling-resistance tires, which do compromise traction to save drag. I have definitely noticed that on the stock (HCH-1) tires, they would tend to "follow" small grooves on the surface of the road, even after fresh maintentance work. This is no longer an issue now that I'm running different tires. This is noticably different than the effect of driving a lightweight car in wind, which usually kicks in most noticably when trying to overtake large 18-wheel trucks and passing through their draft, or when driving with a crosswind. However, lower-rolling-resistance tires would tend to exaggerate that effect also, as they won't resist side-to-side "blowing" as much.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

My "alignment " issue went away when I inflated the tires to an equal 35 lbs all the way around.



That being said, the cars do get out of alignment in shipping and it is not part of the dealer prep. Be careful to follow the specs for the 2006 civic as many dealerships still have the 2003-2005 specs loaded and use those in error.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

The alignement is covered under warranty for the first year. I just had my car aligned by Honda. Take it to the dealer and complain about it. They did use the data from the 03-05! and gave me some BS about that being the same at the 06... I will probably contact Honda about that and have the car aligned at another place again.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to pay attention to my wheels from now on and see if I need an alignment.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Perhaps your change in driving style and the additional mileage on the car (break in) contributed more to the increase in fuel economy than the alignment did. Proper alignment is important, but other factors may come into play as well. For many people, the first tank or two of gas do not provide great fuel economy, especially if you have never driven a hybrid before.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Wow. Great to hear. Some of the symptoms you mention bother the crud out of me. What kind of tires did you get, and do you get comparable mileage??

Thanks for the info.

Lansing

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

the jumping around you experience is typical of low rolling resistance alignment. the front alignment has zero toe... which means any groove in the road will make your car follow it. with toe in or toe out, your car is less neutral and will not follow all the grooves in the road.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

I wanted to bring this up again because it seems some of the US assembled Civic sedans have alignment from the factory that is so far off that the car is dangerous to drive. So far, it does not seem that anyone here has that extreme. Upon checking with my sources at Honda, the assembly process at the factory only relies on visually aligning certain marks on suspension components - they don't perform a true alignment.

So now, the question is if it's worth the $60-100 for an alignment since in most cases, any improvement will not significantly affect mileage to make up that cost. Also, in most cases, it's not off enough for dealers to do it under warranty.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Well, I had an issue with the alignment when I purchased the HCH II. The steering was off centered due to the car pulling to the left a little. So, I complained to my dealer I bought the car from when I did service “A” and they said that the alignment was a wear and tear item and I would have to pay for it. So, I took it to another dealer and lowered my tire pressure to the recommended 32 and aligned it. They said the alignment was way out of spec. I haven’t driven over any pot holes and such and all smooth roads. Well, they covered it under warranty. I never have had a problem with this dealer with all the Honda’s I have had even though I didn’t buy my car from them. Don’t you hate it when another dealer treats you better even though you didn’t buy your car from there?

The dealer said where I bought my car they didn’t do the tests that needed to be done before they deliver the car.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

It is funny that you have posted about this....I have been drive'n myself crazy thinking the Alignment on my Hybrid is off...or is it just the shape of the dash? It feels as though the cars wants to go to the right. ( How can this be, the car is new?):omg:
On a flat even road it doesnt necessarly pull to the right but eventually will, but never to the left....

I rec'n I better check it out!
Thanks,
PPD

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

Dave, if your car is pulling to the right when all four tires are inflated equally, that's a dead giveaway that there's an alignment or (less likely) suspension problem.

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

i took a look at the paper work and this is what they did:

what i said:
customer states the steering wheel is off center
please inspect and advise

they said:
excessive cross camber
installed front damper adjusting bolts
performed 4 wheel alignment-roadtest

parts:
4, 04512-sna-305 bolt, fr hp820257

Re: Alignment = much better MPG. PLEASE READ!
 

I too had trouble with the tires wearing unevenly, so I decided to take it back to the dealer to get it checked out. This is what they told me: They DON'T cover alignments after 12,000 miles. Regardless of car age. So I couldn't get it covered under warranty. Have to get it aligned out of my own pocket :(