I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like about it
#31
03-21-2008, 07:34 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
There are two things that I don't like about my HCH-II. Fortunately, they are both quite tolerable for me, and I regard them as minor:
On the last point, I think it's remarkable that there is even this sophisticated engine technology to map out and aggressively find fuel efficiencies. I accept that despite all the best planning and design to make it as transparent as possible, automation and man will always have moments where they butt heads. The automation is infers my intentions, but it can't forecast what I'm about to do. Not even Rinnspeed can figure that one out.
- Keeping the front windshield clear when there is snow accumulating: I prefer auto climate control, but I will switch the air distribution to windshield and foot to keep fogging and frost down. However, snow can accumulate and freeze, especially at the sides where the wipers push it. That's when I switch to defrost, which is the mode that negates auto stop, and pours lots of heat towards the windshield. While I'm getting uncomfortably warm inside, and air is not distributing evenly, I find that the defrost doesn't seem to be powerful enough to effectively clear the windshield. If it does melt off the snow and ice, I then switch the defroster off, but a little later on I'll have to repeat that cycle. At the same time, I may have to switch off the defroster to get circulating air to clear the side windows. I mean I guess that's life with snow, and it is a longer than normal windshield, but it seems the defroster isn't scaled to the challenge
- The transmission re-engagement when either driving off or "cancelling" an auto stop while still rolling -- forward-motion bumps -- are noticeable, especially to passengers. As a driver, my needs can change in an instant, but the iVTEC + IMA isn't always graceful in the transitions. For example, while gliding on a flat road some of the cylinders may be idled, but a slight touch to the accelerator to regain momentum reactivates some cylinders and you can feel the power change, like a digital on/off switch
On the last point, I think it's remarkable that there is even this sophisticated engine technology to map out and aggressively find fuel efficiencies. I accept that despite all the best planning and design to make it as transparent as possible, automation and man will always have moments where they butt heads. The automation is infers my intentions, but it can't forecast what I'm about to do. Not even Rinnspeed can figure that one out.
#32
03-22-2008, 08:02 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
Mileage will vary depending where you are located. If you are located where people are getting 50+ mpg, you might get the same results. If you live where someone gets 35-40 then you will get similar.
My Civic is just now starting to achieve 40mpg. It has nothing to do with my driving style, it has more to do with shorter commuting and hilly terrain. My Civic hardly ever sees a highway or freeway system. It has literally been on the highway about 20 times since I got it in September of '07.
The Civic is not a BMW, which in itself is a Godsend. My Mercedes-Benz was a real piece of crap and having co-workers with BMWs with their own problems I am glad my Civic has not been to the shop. I am currently at 5% oil life on my Civic now and it is at 6100 miles, so your oil life will also vary.
My only complaint with Honda on this Civic is the lack of fold-down or pass through seating. But Honda could update the Civic in the future and add that ability so I can wait. And for now, when I need to use something bigger, I can call Enterprise (They'll pick you up
).
My Civic is just now starting to achieve 40mpg. It has nothing to do with my driving style, it has more to do with shorter commuting and hilly terrain. My Civic hardly ever sees a highway or freeway system. It has literally been on the highway about 20 times since I got it in September of '07.
The Civic is not a BMW, which in itself is a Godsend. My Mercedes-Benz was a real piece of crap and having co-workers with BMWs with their own problems I am glad my Civic has not been to the shop. I am currently at 5% oil life on my Civic now and it is at 6100 miles, so your oil life will also vary.
My only complaint with Honda on this Civic is the lack of fold-down or pass through seating. But Honda could update the Civic in the future and add that ability so I can wait. And for now, when I need to use something bigger, I can call Enterprise (They'll pick you up
).We are still on 10% oil life after 8,000 miles--difference in driving, I guess. We take our granddaughter to college (about 25 miles round trip) four times a week, and most of that is freeway, so that helps mileage. Still, bad mileage for us is in the low 40s.
#33
03-22-2008, 10:30 PM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
The OP asked for everyone's opinion. I offered mine. I live in NJ and get bad mileage. I honestly dont think I have a lead foot. If there are other people in NJ that have been getting the 46.xx these past few months, please make it known. And I do tend to have short commutes.
So how about I qualify my opinion as follows:
If you live in New England and have short commutes, you should expect mileage in the low 30s in the winter (although the same people who make this argument will prob tell you that you are running the AC too high in the summer)
If you are okay with that, then HCH is your car. If not, then HCH is not the way to go. And if you pay AMT (like myself and alot of other people), you will not get the rebate.
And I never said you would get better mileage with a non-hybrid. I'm saying the economics doesn't work out. If money is not an issue for you, then you can buy whatever car you like.
Don't let someone on a forum with an environmental agenda sell you on this car talking about how you're gonna save on insurance. Instead of greenpeace, maybe you can go buy some carbon offsets like al gore. I havent done the math, but it would be interesting to see if you would end up ahead.
The regular civic has 140hp so you should keep that in mind.
And thanks Per K for telling me what mileage I get on my BMW.
So how about I qualify my opinion as follows:
If you live in New England and have short commutes, you should expect mileage in the low 30s in the winter (although the same people who make this argument will prob tell you that you are running the AC too high in the summer)
If you are okay with that, then HCH is your car. If not, then HCH is not the way to go. And if you pay AMT (like myself and alot of other people), you will not get the rebate.
And I never said you would get better mileage with a non-hybrid. I'm saying the economics doesn't work out. If money is not an issue for you, then you can buy whatever car you like.
Don't let someone on a forum with an environmental agenda sell you on this car talking about how you're gonna save on insurance. Instead of greenpeace, maybe you can go buy some carbon offsets like al gore. I havent done the math, but it would be interesting to see if you would end up ahead.
The regular civic has 140hp so you should keep that in mind.
And thanks Per K for telling me what mileage I get on my BMW.
Last edited by jpjpjpjpjp; 03-22-2008 at 10:47 PM.
#34
03-23-2008, 04:17 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
Love mine. I live in NC and get 55 mpg or so - I live about 1 mile from the highway and travel everyday (work) at 55-65 mph on the highway for 10-15 miles. If I slow down a bit and don't do city driving (ie errands) I can get over 60 in the spring/fall/summer. Just a note here - in my work lot, there are more HCHs than Prius's I think because we generally do a lot of highway miles here (Raleigh, NC). There is much less stop and crawl traffic here compared to other cities.
Biggest complaint - not being able to fold down seats. Next car needs that since we will be replacing 96 Civic that has been our big item carrier.
I pay a slight bit more for insurance - the rep didn't know why but ?ed potential increased repair costs. Also people buying hybrids might tend to drive more miles - makes sense. I think it was on the order of $5 a month difference on a $50/month policy. Chump change but the point is don't expect to save money necessarily.
FWIW - I did not get hit my AMT and I fully expected to. I think it really hits the higher tax areas with high real estate values (and high mortgages) and people with kids.
JP side note - I doubt you got 12 mpg but those BMW trip computers definitely tended to the optomistic side of things. I typically was at 20 mpg but reality was more like 18. The HCH tends to be pessimistic by about 2 mpg.
Biggest complaint - not being able to fold down seats. Next car needs that since we will be replacing 96 Civic that has been our big item carrier.
I pay a slight bit more for insurance - the rep didn't know why but ?ed potential increased repair costs. Also people buying hybrids might tend to drive more miles - makes sense. I think it was on the order of $5 a month difference on a $50/month policy. Chump change but the point is don't expect to save money necessarily.
FWIW - I did not get hit my AMT and I fully expected to. I think it really hits the higher tax areas with high real estate values (and high mortgages) and people with kids.
JP side note - I doubt you got 12 mpg but those BMW trip computers definitely tended to the optomistic side of things. I typically was at 20 mpg but reality was more like 18. The HCH tends to be pessimistic by about 2 mpg.
#35
03-23-2008, 05:47 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
im sure someone could find the exact consumer reports article...but:
http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2004/05/63413
Blackshaw, who is chief customer satisfaction officer at Intelliseek.com, spoke to a Honda regional manager about his concerns, and wrote a letter to a Honda vice president on April 15 that was not answered. His story has been echoed dozens of times online by owners of the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Drivers rarely see the actual EPA-rated mileage in the real world, according to John DiPietro, road-test editor of automotive website Edmunds.com. DiPietro says most drivers will get between 75 to 87 percent of the rated mileage, with individual variations based on driving habits and traffic route. "If a new car gets less than 75 percent of its EPA rating, then it should be retested."
Data from independent product-testing organization Consumer Reports indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets. In Consumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg. Hybrid cars performed much closer to EPA estimates in Consumer Reports' highway tests.
http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2004/05/63413
Blackshaw, who is chief customer satisfaction officer at Intelliseek.com, spoke to a Honda regional manager about his concerns, and wrote a letter to a Honda vice president on April 15 that was not answered. His story has been echoed dozens of times online by owners of the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Drivers rarely see the actual EPA-rated mileage in the real world, according to John DiPietro, road-test editor of automotive website Edmunds.com. DiPietro says most drivers will get between 75 to 87 percent of the rated mileage, with individual variations based on driving habits and traffic route. "If a new car gets less than 75 percent of its EPA rating, then it should be retested."
Data from independent product-testing organization Consumer Reports indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets. In Consumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg. Hybrid cars performed much closer to EPA estimates in Consumer Reports' highway tests.
#36
03-23-2008, 06:51 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
I'm not saying that your experience is not real jp, and you make a valid point that *for you* buying the Civic Hybrid does not make economic sense.
The question is why do you continue to hold onto it if you know that it doesn't make sense? If I were in your position, I would unload it or make peace with it but I certainly would not continue to let it be a sore spot in life as it appears to be for you. Also, why do you continue to post here if you know that no one agrees with you?
In fairness to the rest of the contributors here, in prior posts you have very plainly stated that your driving style is very short trips, very aggressive and make constant comparisons to your prior vehicle, a BMW to which the Civic Hybrid will never live up to. Others on this forum very politely gave you advise on how you may be able to improve your mileage and you very quickly and rudely shoved it back in their face.
Common sense and a couple of minutes of research prior to your purchase might have saved you some heartache. I can appreciate your desire to warn others to do so, as it is prudent advice. However your warning continues to be loaded with insults and political accusations against everyone who does not have your experience or agree with your approach.
It is clear that most people do not drive in the manner you do, in the conditions you do, and with the expectations you do. Your situation is the worst case scenario for any car, which is a point that has been made numerous times. The other participants of this forum have laid out several options to help you improve your situation, yet you continue to choose to complain about your car instead.
You have made your point, it is noted, it's time to move on. For your sake and for everyone elses. There's nowhere left for your arguement to go that will be pleasant or worth reading unless something changes on your end.
The question is why do you continue to hold onto it if you know that it doesn't make sense? If I were in your position, I would unload it or make peace with it but I certainly would not continue to let it be a sore spot in life as it appears to be for you. Also, why do you continue to post here if you know that no one agrees with you?
In fairness to the rest of the contributors here, in prior posts you have very plainly stated that your driving style is very short trips, very aggressive and make constant comparisons to your prior vehicle, a BMW to which the Civic Hybrid will never live up to. Others on this forum very politely gave you advise on how you may be able to improve your mileage and you very quickly and rudely shoved it back in their face.
Common sense and a couple of minutes of research prior to your purchase might have saved you some heartache. I can appreciate your desire to warn others to do so, as it is prudent advice. However your warning continues to be loaded with insults and political accusations against everyone who does not have your experience or agree with your approach.
It is clear that most people do not drive in the manner you do, in the conditions you do, and with the expectations you do. Your situation is the worst case scenario for any car, which is a point that has been made numerous times. The other participants of this forum have laid out several options to help you improve your situation, yet you continue to choose to complain about your car instead.
You have made your point, it is noted, it's time to move on. For your sake and for everyone elses. There's nowhere left for your arguement to go that will be pleasant or worth reading unless something changes on your end.
#37
03-23-2008, 06:56 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
The actual articles (note that the Honda Civic listed here is *not* the Hybrid model. Also you will need a subscription for the link):
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...hybrid%2520epa
Real-world EPA testing? Not always
Hybrids still have higher EPA city cyle results than what Consumer Reports found in testing, although the EPA numbers have certainly dropped. For example, the Toyota Prius was originally rated at 60 mpg in the EPA city cyle, but will now be rated at 48 mpg. That is more realistic, but in our testing we returned 35 mpg in the city cyle.
The chart below compares the old and new EPA fuel-economy results for the city and highway cyles, as well as the overall figure, with the city, highway, and overall figures that Consumer Reports returned in our real-world fuel economy tests.
The results below show that while the new EPA figures are a downward adjustment and not as high as before, in many cases their numbers are still optimistic in comparison to the results from the Consumer Reports real-world fuel economy tests.
Hybrids still have higher EPA city cyle results than what Consumer Reports found in testing, although the EPA numbers have certainly dropped. For example, the Toyota Prius was originally rated at 60 mpg in the EPA city cyle, but will now be rated at 48 mpg. That is more realistic, but in our testing we returned 35 mpg in the city cycle.
2006 Chevrolet Avalanche (4wd)
Engine: 5.3L V8 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 14Old EPA Hwy: 18Old EPA overall: 16New EPA city: 13New EPA Hwy: 17New EPA overall: 14CR City: 9CR Hwy: 20CR Overall: 13
2006 Honda Civic
Engine: 1.8L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 30Old EPA Hwy: 40Old EPA overall: 34New EPA city: 26New EPA Hwy: 36New EPA overall: 30CR City: 18CR Hwy: 43CR Overall: 28
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.7L V8 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 15Old EPA Hwy: 20Old EPA overall: 17New EPA city: 14New EPA Hwy: 19New EPA overall: 15CR City: 9CR Hwy: 21CR Overall: 14
2006 Hyundai Sonata
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 24Old EPA Hwy: 33Old EPA overall: 27New EPA city: 21New EPA Hwy: 30New EPA overall: 24CR City: 15CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 23
2006 Ford Explorer (4wd)
Engine: 4.0L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 15Old EPA Hwy: 20Old EPA overall: 17New EPA city: 13New EPA Hwy: 19New EPA overall: 15CR City: 10CR Hwy: 22CR Overall: 15
2005 Honda Odyssey
Engine: 3.5L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 20Old EPA Hwy: 28Old EPA overall: 23New EPA city: 17New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 20CR City: 12CR Hwy: 28CR Overall: 19
2006 Scion tC
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Manual Old EPA City: 22Old EPA Hwy: 29Old EPA overall: 25New EPA city: 19New EPA Hwy: 27New EPA overall: 22CR City: 19CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 26
2004 Toyota Prius hybrid
Engine: 1.5L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 60Old EPA Hwy: 51Old EPA overall: 55New EPA city: 48New EPA Hwy: 45New EPA overall: 46CR City: 35CR Hwy: 50CR Overall: 44
2006 Chevrolet Impala
Engine: 3.9L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 19Old EPA Hwy: 27Old EPA overall: 22New EPA city: 17New EPA Hwy: 25New EPA overall: 20CR City: 13CR Hwy: 29CR Overall: 20
2005 Ford Five Hundred (FWD)
Engine: 3.0L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 21Old EPA Hwy: 29Old EPA overall: 24New EPA city: 19New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 21CR City: 14CR Hwy: 31CR Overall: 21
Kia Rio 5
Engine: 1.6L 4-cyl. Transmission: Manual Old EPA City: 32Old EPA Hwy: 35Old EPA overall: 33New EPA city: 27New EPA Hwy: 32New EPA overall: 29CR City: 23CR Hwy: 36CR Overall: 30
2006 Toyota Camry
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 24Old EPA Hwy: 34Old EPA overall: 28New EPA city: 21New EPA Hwy: 31New EPA overall: 25CR City: 16CR Hwy: 36CR Overall: 24
2005 Ford Escape hybrid (4WD)
Engine: 2.3L Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 33Old EPA Hwy: 29Old EPA overall: 31New EPA city: 28New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 27CR City: 22CR Hwy: 29CR Overall: 26
2007 Nissan Altima
Engine: 2.5L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 26Old EPA Hwy: 34Old EPA overall: 29New EPA city: 23New EPA Hwy: 31New EPA overall: 26CR City: 18CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 25
2005 Honda Accord hybrid
Engine: 3.0L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 29Old EPA Hwy: 37Old EPA overall: 32New EPA city: 25New EPA Hwy: 33New EPA overall: 28CR City: 18CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 25
2006 Toyota Rav 4
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 23Old EPA Hwy: 28Old EPA overall: 25New EPA city: 20New EPA Hwy: 25New EPA overall: 22CR City: 17CR Hwy: 29CR Overall: 23
2007 Toyota Sienna (FWD)
Engine: 3.5L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 19Old EPA Hwy: 26Old EPA overall: 22New EPA city: 17New EPA Hwy: 24New EPA overall: 19CR City: 13CR Hwy: 28CR Overall: 19
2006 Chevrolet Corvette
Engine: 6.0L V8 Transmission: Manual Old EPA City: 18Old EPA Hwy: 28Old EPA overall: 21New EPA city: 16New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 19CR City: 14CR Hwy: 31CR Overall: 21
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...hybrid%2520epa
Real-world EPA testing? Not always
Hybrids still have higher EPA city cyle results than what Consumer Reports found in testing, although the EPA numbers have certainly dropped. For example, the Toyota Prius was originally rated at 60 mpg in the EPA city cyle, but will now be rated at 48 mpg. That is more realistic, but in our testing we returned 35 mpg in the city cyle.
The chart below compares the old and new EPA fuel-economy results for the city and highway cyles, as well as the overall figure, with the city, highway, and overall figures that Consumer Reports returned in our real-world fuel economy tests.
The results below show that while the new EPA figures are a downward adjustment and not as high as before, in many cases their numbers are still optimistic in comparison to the results from the Consumer Reports real-world fuel economy tests.
Hybrids still have higher EPA city cyle results than what Consumer Reports found in testing, although the EPA numbers have certainly dropped. For example, the Toyota Prius was originally rated at 60 mpg in the EPA city cyle, but will now be rated at 48 mpg. That is more realistic, but in our testing we returned 35 mpg in the city cycle.
2006 Chevrolet Avalanche (4wd)
Engine: 5.3L V8 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 14Old EPA Hwy: 18Old EPA overall: 16New EPA city: 13New EPA Hwy: 17New EPA overall: 14CR City: 9CR Hwy: 20CR Overall: 13
2006 Honda Civic
Engine: 1.8L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 30Old EPA Hwy: 40Old EPA overall: 34New EPA city: 26New EPA Hwy: 36New EPA overall: 30CR City: 18CR Hwy: 43CR Overall: 28
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.7L V8 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 15Old EPA Hwy: 20Old EPA overall: 17New EPA city: 14New EPA Hwy: 19New EPA overall: 15CR City: 9CR Hwy: 21CR Overall: 14
2006 Hyundai Sonata
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 24Old EPA Hwy: 33Old EPA overall: 27New EPA city: 21New EPA Hwy: 30New EPA overall: 24CR City: 15CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 23
2006 Ford Explorer (4wd)
Engine: 4.0L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 15Old EPA Hwy: 20Old EPA overall: 17New EPA city: 13New EPA Hwy: 19New EPA overall: 15CR City: 10CR Hwy: 22CR Overall: 15
2005 Honda Odyssey
Engine: 3.5L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 20Old EPA Hwy: 28Old EPA overall: 23New EPA city: 17New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 20CR City: 12CR Hwy: 28CR Overall: 19
2006 Scion tC
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Manual Old EPA City: 22Old EPA Hwy: 29Old EPA overall: 25New EPA city: 19New EPA Hwy: 27New EPA overall: 22CR City: 19CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 26
2004 Toyota Prius hybrid
Engine: 1.5L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 60Old EPA Hwy: 51Old EPA overall: 55New EPA city: 48New EPA Hwy: 45New EPA overall: 46CR City: 35CR Hwy: 50CR Overall: 44
2006 Chevrolet Impala
Engine: 3.9L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 19Old EPA Hwy: 27Old EPA overall: 22New EPA city: 17New EPA Hwy: 25New EPA overall: 20CR City: 13CR Hwy: 29CR Overall: 20
2005 Ford Five Hundred (FWD)
Engine: 3.0L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 21Old EPA Hwy: 29Old EPA overall: 24New EPA city: 19New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 21CR City: 14CR Hwy: 31CR Overall: 21
Kia Rio 5
Engine: 1.6L 4-cyl. Transmission: Manual Old EPA City: 32Old EPA Hwy: 35Old EPA overall: 33New EPA city: 27New EPA Hwy: 32New EPA overall: 29CR City: 23CR Hwy: 36CR Overall: 30
2006 Toyota Camry
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 24Old EPA Hwy: 34Old EPA overall: 28New EPA city: 21New EPA Hwy: 31New EPA overall: 25CR City: 16CR Hwy: 36CR Overall: 24
2005 Ford Escape hybrid (4WD)
Engine: 2.3L Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 33Old EPA Hwy: 29Old EPA overall: 31New EPA city: 28New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 27CR City: 22CR Hwy: 29CR Overall: 26
2007 Nissan Altima
Engine: 2.5L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 26Old EPA Hwy: 34Old EPA overall: 29New EPA city: 23New EPA Hwy: 31New EPA overall: 26CR City: 18CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 25
2005 Honda Accord hybrid
Engine: 3.0L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 29Old EPA Hwy: 37Old EPA overall: 32New EPA city: 25New EPA Hwy: 33New EPA overall: 28CR City: 18CR Hwy: 33CR Overall: 25
2006 Toyota Rav 4
Engine: 2.4L 4-cyl. Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 23Old EPA Hwy: 28Old EPA overall: 25New EPA city: 20New EPA Hwy: 25New EPA overall: 22CR City: 17CR Hwy: 29CR Overall: 23
2007 Toyota Sienna (FWD)
Engine: 3.5L V6 Transmission: Automatic Old EPA City: 19Old EPA Hwy: 26Old EPA overall: 22New EPA city: 17New EPA Hwy: 24New EPA overall: 19CR City: 13CR Hwy: 28CR Overall: 19
2006 Chevrolet Corvette
Engine: 6.0L V8 Transmission: Manual Old EPA City: 18Old EPA Hwy: 28Old EPA overall: 21New EPA city: 16New EPA Hwy: 26New EPA overall: 19CR City: 14CR Hwy: 31CR Overall: 21
Last edited by caholla; 03-23-2008 at 06:59 AM.
#38
03-23-2008, 07:00 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
Followup article a few months later (again, subscription needed for link):
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...m=hybrid%20epa
Surprising facts about gas mileage
Hybrids can stretch a gallon but not as far as expected
With gas prices on the rise, you might be worried about how many miles your car gets per gallon. You could, in fact, be getting fewer miles per gallon than you expected when you bought your car, and owners of hybrids may be the most surprised.
On every new vehicle, manufacturers are required to list how many miles you can expect to get per gallon of gas. Carmakers are allowed to make these claims based on a government test at the Environmental Protection Agency in which vehicles are put on a treadmill-like device called a dynamometer. The tester watches a computer screen to determine how much to accelerate and when to brake so each vehicle is tested in exactly the same way.
But just how accurately does a test on a dynamometer reflect the mileage you get on the road? Not very, says David Champion, Senior Director of the Auto Test Department at Consumer Reports. According to Champion, manufacturers optimize their cars in order to get the best results they can on EPA tests. "That isn't always what you're going to get in real life," says Champion.
The United States Department of Energy and the EPA maintain a Web site with fuel economy information, including testing results and frequently asked questions. Some of the reasons listed as to why a consumer's fuel economy may differ from the EPA estimates include factors related to driving conditions, driver behavior, vehicle maintenance, and the contents of the fuel being used. You can find this information at www.fueleconomy.gov.
For the 2008 model year, the EPA has established a new method for determining miles-per-gallon estimates that will appear on vehicle window stickers. This change is expected to show a significant decrease in city and highway fuel-economy estimates that better reflect real-world driving.
Consumer Reports tests vehicles for fuel efficiency on the road. Our test course is marked with speed posts and stop signs to simulate stop-and-go city driving and a meter reads the actual amount of fuel consumed by the engine during the test.
Consumer Reports finds vehicles often get worse gas mileage than the figures listed on the manufacturer's sticker, especially for city driving. For example, a four-cylinder Chevrolet Malibu has an EPA estimate of 24 mpg in city driving, but Consumer Reports only achieved 16 mpg in our city test. That's one-third less fuel economy. The Dodge Stratus four-cylinder model is estimated to get 22 mpg in the city, but achieved just 14 mpg in our city test. And the four-wheel drive Nissan Armada, which the manufacturer's sticker says should get 13 mpg for city driving, got a mere 9 mpg in our test. That means driving around town, you'd get about 100 miles less on a tank of gas.
Hybrid owners haven't been exempt from feeling this pinch either. In our testing, we fell way short of EPA estimates of 60 mpg city and 51 mpg highway. Our Prius managed only 35 mpg in the city and 50 mpg on the highway, with an average of 44 mpg overall. The Prius still provides the best fuel economy we've recorded in a five-passenger vehicle, but it's not nearly as high as the EPA figures would have you believe.
The Honda Civic Hybrid had similar results. Our tested 2003 Hybrid sedan with a CVT returned 26 mpg in the city and 45 mpg on the highway, with an overall average of 36 mpg. The EPA quotes 48 mpg city and 47 mpg highway.
"When we do our tests, it's on the road and it gives us a much more realistic evaluation of the fuel economy of each vehicle," says Champion. The EPA is currently re-evaluating how it measures fuel efficiency.
Hybrid owners may be particularly disappointed with their mileage, considering hybrids typically cost more than similarly sized and equipped conventional cars.
At $3.00 per gallon, cars in the same class as the Prius burn about $1,900 worth of fuel in 15,000 miles. The Prius would save about $900 per year at that rate. But people expecting better mileage from their hybrid will find that it takes longer to recover the price difference in gas savings alone.
No matter what mileage your car is supposed to get, there are a number of things you can do to improve its fuel efficiency. Just keeping your car tuned up and your tires properly inflated can make a big difference. For more tips, see our report on saving money on fuel.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...m=hybrid%20epa
Surprising facts about gas mileage
Hybrids can stretch a gallon but not as far as expected
With gas prices on the rise, you might be worried about how many miles your car gets per gallon. You could, in fact, be getting fewer miles per gallon than you expected when you bought your car, and owners of hybrids may be the most surprised.
On every new vehicle, manufacturers are required to list how many miles you can expect to get per gallon of gas. Carmakers are allowed to make these claims based on a government test at the Environmental Protection Agency in which vehicles are put on a treadmill-like device called a dynamometer. The tester watches a computer screen to determine how much to accelerate and when to brake so each vehicle is tested in exactly the same way.
But just how accurately does a test on a dynamometer reflect the mileage you get on the road? Not very, says David Champion, Senior Director of the Auto Test Department at Consumer Reports. According to Champion, manufacturers optimize their cars in order to get the best results they can on EPA tests. "That isn't always what you're going to get in real life," says Champion.
The United States Department of Energy and the EPA maintain a Web site with fuel economy information, including testing results and frequently asked questions. Some of the reasons listed as to why a consumer's fuel economy may differ from the EPA estimates include factors related to driving conditions, driver behavior, vehicle maintenance, and the contents of the fuel being used. You can find this information at www.fueleconomy.gov.
For the 2008 model year, the EPA has established a new method for determining miles-per-gallon estimates that will appear on vehicle window stickers. This change is expected to show a significant decrease in city and highway fuel-economy estimates that better reflect real-world driving.
Consumer Reports tests vehicles for fuel efficiency on the road. Our test course is marked with speed posts and stop signs to simulate stop-and-go city driving and a meter reads the actual amount of fuel consumed by the engine during the test.
Consumer Reports finds vehicles often get worse gas mileage than the figures listed on the manufacturer's sticker, especially for city driving. For example, a four-cylinder Chevrolet Malibu has an EPA estimate of 24 mpg in city driving, but Consumer Reports only achieved 16 mpg in our city test. That's one-third less fuel economy. The Dodge Stratus four-cylinder model is estimated to get 22 mpg in the city, but achieved just 14 mpg in our city test. And the four-wheel drive Nissan Armada, which the manufacturer's sticker says should get 13 mpg for city driving, got a mere 9 mpg in our test. That means driving around town, you'd get about 100 miles less on a tank of gas.
Hybrid owners haven't been exempt from feeling this pinch either. In our testing, we fell way short of EPA estimates of 60 mpg city and 51 mpg highway. Our Prius managed only 35 mpg in the city and 50 mpg on the highway, with an average of 44 mpg overall. The Prius still provides the best fuel economy we've recorded in a five-passenger vehicle, but it's not nearly as high as the EPA figures would have you believe.
The Honda Civic Hybrid had similar results. Our tested 2003 Hybrid sedan with a CVT returned 26 mpg in the city and 45 mpg on the highway, with an overall average of 36 mpg. The EPA quotes 48 mpg city and 47 mpg highway.
"When we do our tests, it's on the road and it gives us a much more realistic evaluation of the fuel economy of each vehicle," says Champion. The EPA is currently re-evaluating how it measures fuel efficiency.
Hybrid owners may be particularly disappointed with their mileage, considering hybrids typically cost more than similarly sized and equipped conventional cars.
At $3.00 per gallon, cars in the same class as the Prius burn about $1,900 worth of fuel in 15,000 miles. The Prius would save about $900 per year at that rate. But people expecting better mileage from their hybrid will find that it takes longer to recover the price difference in gas savings alone.
No matter what mileage your car is supposed to get, there are a number of things you can do to improve its fuel efficiency. Just keeping your car tuned up and your tires properly inflated can make a big difference. For more tips, see our report on saving money on fuel.
Last edited by caholla; 03-23-2008 at 07:03 AM.
#39
03-23-2008, 07:18 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
EPA's User Database for HCH Hybrid (compare to GreenHybrid User Database)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.d...Civic%20Hybrid
Year Trans EPA Comb EPA City EPA Hwy User Ave User Range No. of Vehicles
2008 CVT 42 40 45 41.2 35-52 15
2007 CVT 42 40 45 42.0 30-56 45
2006 CVT 42 40 45 45.6 30-72 93
EPA's User Database for Gas Civic
2008 AUTO 29 25 36 29.7 21-39 21
2008 MAN 29 26 34 33.2 31-35 5
2008 SI 24 21 29 25.6 22-31 3
2007 AUTO 29 25 36 30.7 21-42 64
2007 MAN 29 26 34 31.6 22-38 23
2007 SI 24 21 29 27.4 25-32 7
2006 AUTO 29 25 36 31.2 18-43 92
2006 MAN 29 26 34 33.3 25-39 19
2006 SI 24 21 29 26.9 22-32 14
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.d...Civic%20Hybrid
Year Trans EPA Comb EPA City EPA Hwy User Ave User Range No. of Vehicles
2008 CVT 42 40 45 41.2 35-52 15
2007 CVT 42 40 45 42.0 30-56 45
2006 CVT 42 40 45 45.6 30-72 93
EPA's User Database for Gas Civic
2008 AUTO 29 25 36 29.7 21-39 21
2008 MAN 29 26 34 33.2 31-35 5
2008 SI 24 21 29 25.6 22-31 3
2007 AUTO 29 25 36 30.7 21-42 64
2007 MAN 29 26 34 31.6 22-38 23
2007 SI 24 21 29 27.4 25-32 7
2006 AUTO 29 25 36 31.2 18-43 92
2006 MAN 29 26 34 33.3 25-39 19
2006 SI 24 21 29 26.9 22-32 14
#40
03-23-2008, 09:38 AM
Re: I'm thinking of purchasing a 08 HCH, can anyone tell me what they don't like abou
I would have to say, if you do not like your HCH you need to see how much you can get for it. Now is the best time for you to get top dollar on a private sale. If you trade it in, the dealer you go to will not give you more than average rate. Again this depends on your dealer.
I personally was not happy with the service and the reliability of my MB-ML350. I could have lived with the problems if the dealer would actually acknowledge them. In the end, I could not "just" get rid of my Mercedes without major finanical impact. I waited a year and I paid a little more than my required monthly payment then I sold it for my Hybrid.
You might not be getting the sticker mileage, but it is still better then what you were getting. I use to put about $50.00-$75.00 in my Mercedes every week. Now I put about $30.00 - $35.00 every other week. Again, I am not getting 45-70mpg like other people on this forum, but it is better than what I was getting.
I personally was not happy with the service and the reliability of my MB-ML350. I could have lived with the problems if the dealer would actually acknowledge them. In the end, I could not "just" get rid of my Mercedes without major finanical impact. I waited a year and I paid a little more than my required monthly payment then I sold it for my Hybrid.
You might not be getting the sticker mileage, but it is still better then what you were getting. I use to put about $50.00-$75.00 in my Mercedes every week. Now I put about $30.00 - $35.00 every other week. Again, I am not getting 45-70mpg like other people on this forum, but it is better than what I was getting.
