New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...dd28honda.html

Quote:

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"Honda says in a side-by-side, 2,500-mile drive their engineers made from Ohio to Los Angeles to Colorado, a Civic Hybrid got 43.6 mpg, while the Prius got 42.5 mpg. That's not bad for a route with a lot of severe elevation and weather changes. It was not just all highway driving, either. It was combined mileage.

Because city driving is supposed to be Prius' strength (it's EPA rated at 60 city/51 highway), Honda also did a city-only driving test in Los Angeles. The Civic got 47 mpg, and the Prius got 46 mpg. In an L.A. highway-only test, Honda's Civic got 49 mpg and the Prius got 47.

Honda's point is this: The automaker is closer to getting the mileage it says it will get on the Monroney sticker than the Prius (or any other Toyota/Lexus hybrid product).

Honda's findings were that the Prius only gets 77 percent of the mpg it is supposed to, compared with more than 90 percent accuracy for the Civic hybrid. "

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PS
This is not a Prius Bash by any stretch - just interesting to report, since the Prius has been the leader up to now...:D

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I can't speak for the Prius, but the HCH numbers are pretty close to what I see when driving normally. By 'normally' I just mean driving 70 on the freeway with cruise control, and accelerating at or below 2500 RPM in the city, and coasting when possible (no other hypermilimg techniques).

So I wonder if this means that the nature of the EPA test somhow favors the Prius' strengths?

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I guess I would support the notion that for the average driver out there, the EPA vs real life mileage discrepancy will likely be greater in the PII than the HCHII. I think the IMA system is more transparent to drivers than the HSD.
That said, based on the GH mileage database, I am an average Prius driver, but I am quite a bit above the Honda test numbers. On my recent 2,200 mile road trip with a PriusII loaded to the gills, AC on all of the time, mostly highway (but some city) at around 70-75 mph, including elevation changes to above 6,000 ft, I averaged 53 mpg.
That leads me to think that Honda drivers probably know more about the IMA and how to drive it properly for maximizing mileage, and less about the HSD. Either way, I think it is quite an accomplishment for Honda to come up with the numbers the HCHII can produce, whether it bests the PriusII or not.
I assume the above test is with a manual HCH, but it is never stated. I don't think it's quite a valid comparison to pit manual vs CVT, CVT vs CVT would be better. Now we need Toyota to run a similar side by side test, and then average out the results.
Either way, it's a very cool result, and my guess is over the next few (model) years Toyota and Honda will continue to leapfrog each other as new versions will come out.
Personally, I wish Honda would issue the fastback Civic as a hybrid.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Hi NASAgineer:

___The Prius’ strengths are in an all city environment where the IMA’s get taken to the woodshed. Because of the slow accelerations and coast downs in the FTP75, the Prius II is in its element. The Prius II’s ICE only runs ~ 46% of the time in that test if you can believe that! The HCH-I and II simply are not designed for this slow speed, ICE-Off Cruise, Accel, and Glide. At speeds below 41 mph, a Prius II’s ICE really does shut down to run in a pure Glide/EV cruise/Regen mode depending on what you want out of it … You have to drive one on a warm day in a slow speed city/suburban environment sometime to see how good they really are in terms of outrageous FE department when driven in their element. The amount of time you will be driving ICE-Off will surprise you.

___A real world example would be to drive your HCH around Manhattan. Its FE would be destroyed in minutes by both a Ford Escape HEV and the Prius II due to their true EV capability. Drive the HCH-I and possibly the HCH-II at 55 + mph and it will take down the Prius II although by only a small margin vs. the Prius II’s large % advantage in the inner city.

___MGBGT, the real world testing above was on an 06 HCH and they only come with a CVT. Honda knows what it is doing in some respects but they do not have the superior hybrid design. They do have the superior ICE design imho. In Honda’s own real world test, they had a lot of highway driving in the mix and this is the HCH-II’s strength over and above the Prius II. The Prius II is a larger and almost 200 # heavier automobile as well … It is to bad more people didn’t push it because it is so easy to bump up its FE when inside that city/suburban environment.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Wow. I had no idea the Prius II was that efficient in an urban environment. Almost enough to make me question my purchase, sicne that's all I ever drive.

Xcel, out of curiosity, the last two tanks I posted were a to/from road trip over Thanksgiving that were basically spent at 68 MPH on cruise picking up drafts that actually yielded better FE than an undrafted cruise at 60 MPH was. After reading your explanation of the Prius II's highway capabilities, do you think it's safe to say I ended up with more in my HCH than I would have in a Prius II?

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

So how does that explain Honda's 'city-only driving test' results? They had the HCH-II coming out ahead of the Prius in city-only driving. There must be some difference between the Honda city test and the EPA city test that favors the Prius?

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Maybe honda knew what they were doing when they limited the ice off EV mode to between about 10 and 30 mph. Maybe they figured the ICE was more efficient at that speed then putting in a bigger motor and have to motor accelerate at the low speed?

Wayne, I may be biased, but I don't hink you should compare the prius IIs city driving with the HCH IIs without actualy haven driven a HCH II. You might find that what you think and what is fact is wrong. The EV mode in the prius is not free energy. It gets generated ultimately from the engine. Even thought it is more thermaly efficient it is possible that the honda's whole package is more efficient?

I still say we have to wait and see until more data is in.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Well I hope this is not to far off "Topic".

I still am very glad I ordered the 2006 HCH ll . ;)

End of statement::zip:

Happy;

Honaker.............better known as tigerhonaker

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Hi Helterskelter683:

___Do not even think about questioning your HCH’s capabilities! It is an excellent hypermiling automobile and the GH RHMDB points this out from both the # of valedictorian’s as well as both the CVT and 5-speed’s overall FE averages! When out on the highway in a slow cruise, your ability to run in lean-burn mode makes up for all the Prius II’s extreme advantages in the city. The fact that you can FAS is a distinct advantage as well but it’s the gyrations needed to perform it that are very un-natural vs. a small change in accelerator pedal angle like the Prius II and the Escape HEV to enter into an ICE-Off – EV mode/Glide below 41 mph. NASAngineeer, your HCH-II as well ;)

___I have not had the chance to run a Prius II in a tight or distant draft so I do not know exactly how it would perform but it does have a lot of electronics staying in synch at that high a speed. I would give the HCH-I the edge in a tight and distant draft given my very short time behind the wheel at 55 + mph in the Prius II … I hope some of the Prius II owning members will reply to bring some clear thoughts to the discussion one way or the other. I would also give the HCH the edge in shorter drives from cold. Here is the reasoning … The Prius II doesn’t hit its stride (Glide, EV mode, and an efficient ICE) until it’s warmed up like any other automobile. I took one for an ~ 7 mile segment in 32 degrees F from cold about 2 years ago and it was a huge struggle to get 57.x mpg from it. Consider the Prius II without ICE-Off - EV in the FTP75. This is where the Prius II’s FE can get ugly quick. You lose AS in the HCH-I and II as well as a somewhat less efficient ICE in the cold but because AS is not nearly the FE attribute that ICE-Off EV/Glide is in the Prius II, you do not take as hard a hit imho. Remember, you can always FAS an HCH-I or II even if they are not warmed up. You cannot do that in a Prius II while waiting for the coolant temp to climb and post O2 sensor to signal a lit CAT so that all her tricks work like they are supposed too :(

___NASAgineer, now that you have some hypermiling experience under your belt, do you think you could take your HCH-II back into the high 30’s instead of the low 50’s for FE? Although I would be sick afterwards, I know I could take the Accord right back down into the mid 20’s like everybody else is receiving in Accord’s in Chicago’s weather, temperatures as of late, and traffic conditions. Honda could and did the same to the Prius II more then likely. Let me put it this way. I know a well setup, CVT based HCH-I is good for ~ 110 mpg in a std. – lower speed P&G with no lights or stops. The Prius II is good for well beyond 120 with far worse traffic/signal conditions. If you owned a Prius II for a month or two and were stuck in city/suburban like traffic conditions, you would be using all of its built in tools to maintain outrageous FE as well you should. I am not saying the average untrained driver can or will do this (we know they will not) but you, HelterSkelter683, and any other hypermiler here at GH that pushes tanks would not settle for 40 - 45 mpg around town in a Prius II when 65 + is only a few accelerator pedal maneuvers away. This is why I have to believe the Honda engineers or techs who drove the Prius II for their own testing would not have optimized her in their own, quasi city test(s).

___Tbaleno, the EV/Glide mode of the HCH-II is still spinning over that ICE. The HCH-I or II in a FAS is still better at saving fuel. I do not know all of the HCH-II’s secrets yet and may never know most in fact. I will say that for the average driver, the HCH-II should beat the Prius II given the increased efficiencies Honda has given it and when looking at the RHMDB of today. For those in an all out war for every last ounce of gasoline (I know a guy like that ;)), the Prius II in the city has to many advantages over and above the HCH-I or II. Once Honda moves IMA to the other side of the transmission housing, supplies a bit larger pack, and a much more powerful MGSet, they will take the Prius II’s advantages to the woodshed. As of this writing, I do not think Honda has a shot at the FE crown in a deep inner city environment no matter if it’s the Insight, the HCH-I or HCH-II. I would hate to go head to head against a valedictorian rated hypermiler in a Escape HEV let alone a much more efficient Prius II in a deep inner city, 24 + hour marathon in my Insight. It would be a battle royale of course but I would be an extremely tired, sore, and quite literally brain dead individual from the amount of concentration and estimations needed vs. just the tired HSD/eCVT’er …

___Let me finish up with this. If I commuted 15 + miles in extremely heavy traffic through the heart of any major city in the US today, I would choose to own a Prius II. If I were driving a 15 + mile 50/50 mixed commute (deep inner city/highway), I think the HCH-II would be the best choice. If I were not driving the Accord on my lengthy 90% highway commute w/ the occasional 5 - 20 mile traffic nightmare thrown in for good measure, the 00 Insight (although they are not that comfortable) or the 03 - 05 HCH-I non-PZEV with a stick would be my #1 choice(s). For the wife, a Ford Escape HEV might be the right choice given her want for a larger, AWD vehicle that sits in a 10 + mile - 45 minute nightmare every morning. The RXh and HH have not yet proven themselves to be in the same league as that of the Escape HEV to date … Tom, you appear to drive in scenario #2 and the CVT based HCH-I is perfect for it! Helterskelter683, because you are willing to go all out, the HCH is perfect for you! NASAgineer, from your traffic descriptions (higher speed – lesser traffic), the HCH-II sounds perfect for your commute. There is no right or wrong but there are degrees of choice. I hope I made my own thoughts clear enough so that those hell bent on saving every last drop know what may be in their best interest irregardless of $’s spent, looks, features, options, size, and/or attributes from the various high FE hybrid’s available to us today.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I haven't had time to read the article, but what I see posted it was Honda's engineers who did the testing for both vehicles.

I can't help but wonder if it were Toyota's staff doing the testing would it be different?

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Sure, but there's a difference between what the car is capable of and what an "average" driver will see. I assume that the Honda testers drove the HCH-II and the Prius-II with the same driving style (enough to make a hypermiler cringe) so the test would be apples to apples. Maybe their point was that if you throw the average driver with no hybrid experience and no knowledge of how to drive for best FE into both cars, the HCH-II wins out, even in deep city conditions.

The fact that the Prius has a higher potential in deep city than the HCH only matters to people willing to change their driving habits, which I fear is a small minority :(

Maybe if there are two crowns, "Best FE for Average Driver" and "Best FE for Hypermiler Driver", the HCH can at least win one of them :shade:

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I'm sure it would be, and they wouldn't even need to drive the Prius any differently than the HCH. I'd guess that in 'average' driving (the way most people drive), the HCH would win, while with 'careful' driving (in both cars), the Prius would win.

The question then is, are we ready as a nation to change the way we drive so that we can take full advantage of the new technology?

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Hi NASAgineer:
___I couldn’t have said that any better myself ;)

___Maybe more of a mindset of who purchases the Prius II vs. who purchases the HCH-II? I do not see many RXh or HH members here really pushing the envelope like I know they could. I see a ton of Escape HEV pilots doing so and the results speak for themselves. I have a sneaky suspicion that the average Prius II driver is a bit less in tune with their car (average Prius II driver, not the technical fringe like most of us here), then the average HCH-I or II driver? Toyota sells more Camry’s but the Accord is a better handling and better overall automobile imho as well as the opinions of C&D, MT, AW, A, CR’s, Edmunds, … Toyota sells many more Prius II’s at a much higher premium with nicer attributes in some regards but in the twisties, I would take the HCH any day of the week. Just maybe the average HCH’er is more in tune with his/or her car then the average Prius II driver and because of this, receives better FE no matter where it is driven? Just a small conspiracy theory of mine :D
___As stated previously, definitely a fact!

___The Insight 5-speed would probably win both ;) Between the HCH-I /II and Prius II, the Prius II would get my vote for inner city champ and the HCH-I/II would get my vote for highway champ irregardless if a hypermiler owned it or not! Give Honda just one more iteration of IMA and look out … Give Toyota just one more iteration of HSD and look out! We have a lot to look forward too, don’t we …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

:angry: Man I just (Really-Hate-It) :angry: when I have made a Big Mistake, so I think that when one does they just need to Revamp and move on.:omg:

:lightbulb I think I may just (Cancel) the 2006 HCH ll after reading this Thread and what xcel has "Thankfully" pointed out about the two Hybrids here and go with the (As-Xcel-Has-Pointed-Out) (TOYOTA PRIUS ll).:lightbulb

It must be the "Much-Superior" Hybrid and I trust his judgement in this matter.

Thank-Goodness I still have time to make this "Change" before it's too Late.:embarass:

This was Too Close:;)

Terry

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Hi Tigerhonaker:

___You did not make a mistake in the least! As active and as interested in multiple topics as you are here at GH, the HCH-II will be the perfect automobile for you! I will try and put it anther way … The HCH is a drivers hybrid; the Prius II is an everyman’s hybrid. I think you belong to the first group ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I don't think anyone pointed this out yet, but right now in the greencarjournal database, the HCH II and Prius II are tied at 48 mpg real-world driving data (with the MT HCH I). Granted, there's only 10 cars contributing to the HCH II data, but there you have it.

Not enough of an incentive for me to give up my '04 HCH MT for either, not when it still only has 15k on it.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Is it just me, or does having Honda be the judge seem completely biased?

I mean, that's like asking Coca-Cola inc. whether they like Coke or Pepsi better.

Second, the rivalry between the two is kind of silly.. we hybrid drivers are supposed to be united right? Whether you drive an HCH or a Prius you are doing the right thing for the environment.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

the ev mode works even at 65 mph, i can attest to that

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Now that throws a spin on things. Forget lean burn when you can go into ev at 65!

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

As for honda doing their own testing, I think we all agree that the results are presented in such a way that would make honda come out on top. Toyota would have done the same. This reminds me of the "pepsi challange" of yesteryear. I think during that time pepsi actualy sold more than coke. I think it will be enough to get people looking at the civic now. I suspect Honda is going to sell a bunch this year with all the press about them.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

While it does seem like a likely source of bias to have Honda run the tests, I'm still betting the HCH 2 will give the Prius 2 a run for its money.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

that's for sure, what with the months long waiting list already for the HCH-II

as for the honda test, always take what you hear with a grain of salt:
when my mom and i were talking with the honda salesperson as we were buying the HCH-II, he mentioned that we shouldn't consider the prius because he had seen many of them running down on the side of the road with their drivers pushing them on the highway. he said there was something wrong with toyota's hybrid technology and that honda's ima was much more reliable.

now, anybody can run out of gas, and i know the priuses had some gas-gauge inaccuracy issues earlier, but i don't think they're as exaggerated as he said they were. and insights had that recalibration problem? or something, i remember seeing it in some threads before.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

For the "pushing it by the side of the road" comment, he was probably referring to how Toyota recalled the Prius because of a software bug that causes the engine to die and potentially fail to restart. I'm 100% sure he's lying, but that was probably what he was basing his lie on, not running out of gas.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Toyota did have a recal issue with the prius stalling and needing to be towed. I don't think it had anything to do with gas. It wasn't a huge issue and they had a recall for it. If a dealer badmouthed their competition like that though I would go elsewhere. It kind of shows what kind of person he is.

HSD is as reliable as IMA in my opinion.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Good one tiger, that is what this forum is all about.

I knew when I bought my HCH-I that it was significantly worse in deep city driving and mildly better (or at least equal) on the highway to the Prius II, my commute is 70/30 hwy/city so the HCH was a good fit. I also live in an area where if I ever switch jobs my commute is likely to switch to 95/5 hwy/city mix, I have tried it and I get 55+ mpg over a 2000 ft hill climb. So I couldn't be happier.

It is good to make an informed buy decision, less chance of buyer's remorse afterwards.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

It was not a recall. It was a "Special Service Campaign".

I believe the PSD of the HSD is more reliable than the CVT or manual transmission of the IMA.

Ken@Japan

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

yap there's been priuses that ran for almost 400000 km with still their original hybrid components

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Honda did a "non-recall recall" on my '03 HCH in order to update the IMA control software. Apparently, the software upgrade was supposed to keep the catylytic converter from burning out. Of course, mine was already burned out, so they replaced that component for free at the same time.;)

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

wow your catalytic converter actually burnt out? i didnt know that there were actual cases. it's a good thing that honda fixed the ima software - it apparently was letting the revs run too low and put too much of a strain on the catalytic system

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Yup... fortunately, that isn't a failure that makes the car undrivable. I had put it in the shop initially because the "check engine" light would illuminate intermittantly. the timing was good, since the software update came out the same week that my car had problems.

The only other real problem (and this one did affect performance) was a software crash that disabled the IMA. That was a whopping 15 minute repair. the car has been running fine ever since.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I checked again and the HCH II is now at 49 mpg average, besting the HCH I MT and Prius II by 1 mpg.

I'm really curious to see how this develops.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I thought this article was interesting:

http://www.statesman.com/hp/content/...2/3CARCOL.html

The author drives a Prius and prefers the 06 Prius over the 06 HCH, but expects the 06 HCH to get better mileage.

I got my best trip mileage so far yesterday. 55 MPG one way on my 28 mile almost all freeway commute. Cruise control @ 60 MPH the whole way. Very little of this is flat, it's mostly gradual rise & fall.

I've also tried DWL, but I still can't beat the cruise control mileage. I can keep the instant FCD at about 55 MPG most of the time, but it's not enough to get me to the tops without dropping below 50 MPH, and I'm going so slow at the tops that I don't get a chance to build up much speed on the downside (again keeping FCD above 50). With cruise, the FCD drops down into the low 30's on the rise, but peggs at 100 on the downside, so the average is about the same I guess. I'm guessing that DWL works better on hills with a shorter distance from the trough to the crest where you have a better shot at coasting most of the way up the hill without losing too much spped. Or I just need more practice.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

So; what would your FE be at 65 MPH or 70 MPH driving in a normal manner; Not jack Rabbit Starts and Passing everything in Sight. Say Left Lane (Cruise-Control) at 65 or 70 MPH what would your FE be in your opinion. What about in the city stop to stop and low speeds; whats one to really expect for FE?

While on this subject are you personally still satisified with your HCH ll and if you had the decision to make again would you still go with it or maybe chance over to the Toyota Prius? I cannot remember did you get the HCH ll with Nav. or not, and if you did not get the one with Nav. do you wish now that you waited and got one with Nav.?

What do you think still of the HCH ll in general as far as Quietness, stereo, auto climate control, ease of use, outside visability, CVT, to just name some of the things a person that has not gotten their HCH ll would like to here from someone that has now driven theirs for awhile.

Thanks;

Terry

BTW; I like your "POST" they are down to earth:;)

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I've got about 1,500 miles on my HCHII now, and my last tank was 46.8mpg (calculated, not via FE guage). With that tank, I drove very 'real world'. That is to say I used cruise control wherever practical, stuck with 65mph as much as possible, never faster, easy starts/stops, things like that. I didn't attempt to hypermile, but if traffic slowed to 35 or so, I worked to keep it in EV mode just to see if I could. I could for short distances, too. Also, my wife borrowed the car one day and she's got a lead foot, so I expect that if I retain full control over a tank of gas, that I'll probably average closer to 50mpg with real world driving.

Hope this helps,

Don

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Hello Don; thanks for the Info.; thats what a new owner wants to know and here from you owners that already have your HCH ll's. That to me sounds great as far as the FE and especially knowing your "Little Lady" got behind the wheel also and that tells me that your 46.8 MPG is pretty darn close to real world as it's going to get. ;)

Great Post;

Terry

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I test drove a HCH'06 recently and I was pretty impressed. It was as if everything I liked about my HCH'03 was bumped up a notch. I guess I'm one of those 94% who would buy another hybrid!

I wonder what the HCH'08 will be like?

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

I got about 45 MPG on cruise control @ 70 MPH. I did several freeway cruise control tests, see this thread for more info:

Cruise Control Freeway Mileage in 06HCH (Experiment)


I'm very happy with my my 06 HCH. I think the Prius has some really cool technology, but I'm not convinced that I would actually get better mileage with it. Plus, I think the HCH is a much more fun car to drive. And it was $5000 cheaper (HCH with NAVI vs. Prius with NAVI; all the other stuff that came in the Prius package #7 was not of value to me). Oh, and it's a Honda (my 4th over the last 20 years) and I've always been impressed by their engineering. It's cool to have a car that has both a high-tech electric motor system *and* a high-tech internal combustion engine.

The car is very quiet, probably about the same as my 99 Accord, maybe a bit quieter. I am hearing more tire noise since I pumped them up to 40 PSI though. The NAVI is very cool, and I'm happy I got it. The database of grocery stores, ATM's, parking, restaurants, etc. has already come in handy many times. The raked windshield puts the forward window support struts into my line of sight when I'm turning corners, especially to the left. I find myself needing to move my head to see around it, but for the added aerodynamics, it's a small price to pay.

The CVT took some getting used to, especially given that I have driven nothing but manual transmissions for the last 22 years. It does take some of the fun out of driving, but playing with the FCD game gauge is fun too. I guess that's more of a manual vs. auto thing, CVT is definietely better than vanilla auto.

I bought a Sirius Starmate Replay and plugged it into the AUX jack (mounted on velcro to the left of the steering column). It would be nice to have the XM integrated with the NAVI, but $79 is much easier to swallow than $800, plus I like the Sirius programming better. I'm happy to slow my commute down to 60 MPH (I used to go 80 in my Accord) because that gives me more time to listen.

Overall, I'm having fun, using less gasoline, and polluting less; a very nice combination!

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

My last tank, which I just finished today, was 40.5 mpg. That was with alot of highway driving at 80 mph, and some bouts of spirited acceleration, but mostly I tried to be gentle. I've measured round trips on the highway as getting around 41 mpg according to the trip meter, including the initial acceleration onto it and deceleration off it, and driving 80 mph once on it without cruise control. That's according to the computer, of course, and the total trip was 20 miles.

I had better results with a Prius, albeit a more broken-in one, and of course a Prius does far better in city driving, regardless of what Honda says... and I wasn't even being gentle with the Prius but I am with my HCH. But I think the HCH is a great car, whereas the Prius would be pretty bad if it weren't for the hybrid drive, IMO.

Re: New HCH bests Prius in Honda road tests
 

Thanks for taking the time to cover the every day part of owning and driving that HCH ll. I know everyone or maybe I should say there is alot of emphasis placed on FE here at GreenHybrid and I also think that it is important but along with that I am purchasing the HCH ll for the Nav. ; X/m; Auto Climate Control and the other modern sides of the car also and therefore it's good to here from you the owner of the HCH ll now and how you feel about your car after driving it for awhile.;)

Appreciate You;

Terry