Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Hello everyone!
I was talking to a guy yesterday about my car. (He has a car that runs on CNG.) He asked me if there were any solar and/or plug-in options for the Civic Hybrid. I know that many companies are doing things like this for the Prius. Has anyone seen anything like this for the Civic? I have searched the forums and google with no results. I know some were saying that a solar panel or plug-in system would not be beneficial to a Civic, because of the way that it integrates the two motors. Is this true?

Thanks,
Colby

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

I believe that people are working on plug in civics but it is very difficult to do.

As for solar panels it is not cost effective to put them ON the car, so it would simply be a plug in hybrid that uses solar panels for electricity, but that is the end of my knowledge.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Some relevant threads:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...ad.php?t=14703

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...ad.php?t=13762

If you go to the second link and go to the first post, you can see an example of an in-car installed solar panel setup for the HCH-II. However, many electrical/physics-minded forum members have pointed out that the fuel economy benefits would be negligibly minimal. Good luck though! I would consider installing a similar setup with enough time and some spare cash :)

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

I have seen those posts, but I am more interested that if someone has made something like this for the civic:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...oweraugme.html

http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html

THX

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Not going to happen with the current configuration, I'm afraid.
The benefits would be less worthy than on the Prius, due to the MUCH smaller electric motor on the Civic. This is also why (small electric motor) it cannot propel the Civic by itself from a dead start. More battery would not change that.
I'm hopeful that I'm proven wrong, though :)

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

I'm also interested in a solar roof panel like this for a Honda Civic Hybrid.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...oweraugme.html

I'm not worried about the pay back period or or a return on my investment at this time. I would just like to know if there is a way to charge the Civic's main batteries using a solar panel on the rood. I realize that we are talking high voltage here but is there a way to tap into the civic's electrical system in some way and charge the main batteries? Maybe the power port or the fuse panel? Again, I'm not worried about the pay back at this time.

Thanks.

Joe

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Yeah. I know that the IMA works a lot differently than Hybrid Synergy Drive, but wouldn't having a solar panel on the roof keep the battery topped off? That way you could coast for much longer times, because you wouldn't need to regen. It would also prevent the battery from draining so low that it has to go into forced regen. I think that if they do it for the Pruis, the should be able to figure out a way to do it for the HCH.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

I too am super interested in the idea of a "PLUG IN CIVIC". I recently had a diesel bus modified to run on waste vegetable oil and I also have a HCH07 that I would love to see modified to be a "plug in". My work has one of those parking spots where you can leave your car plugged in (designed for electric cars)...I would love to plug in HCH!!!

I saw the Prius website and I will def check that out since i am already in LA,
but does anyone know of anything like this taking place for the civic?;)

I'm ready to be modified!!!!:D

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

I think a lot of us are ready to be modified, but its just not gonna happen with the civic. The way that it uses IMA would just not benefit much from a solar panel. I thought that the solar panel would keep the IMA battery charged and thus going into forced regen less and letting the car coast farther (not having to charge on coasting), but apparently it wouldn't. Otherwise someone probably would have made one. The thing is, I haven't even heard of anyone experimenting with a plug in or solar civic. Maybe you can be the first! (cuz i sure couldn't figure out how to do that).

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Although the Civic doesn't work like the Prius with the electric only under 35mph, having the Civic battery topped off when you get in the car would really help after the car is warmed up. 3 things it would help me with is:

1) I'll get better Assist on hills - the higher the SoC, the better it assists with the torque.

2) Further coasting ability without dropping the SoC into forced regen as quickly (if I start at 5 bars SoC I really have to manage the assist/regen to get some coasting in vs starting at 8 bars)

3) Although I don't use the A/C when I'm the only one in the car, I do use it when my wife or daughter are riding with me. As all of us know the A/C is the worst on the SoC charge, especially when you're in AutoStop. I'm in forced regen 1/2 the time my family is in the car because the SoC continuously drops below 5 bars! If I were to start at 8 bars (full charge), I could at least go a lot further in town before dropping into forced regen!

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Does anyone know how the new "Flex Fuel" ethanol gas would work with the civic hybrid? They will soon have it at one gas station that I know of in Brentwood -- at a progressive Biodiesel gas station. I believe that this specific flex fuel gas only works with certain cars that have modified engines for it? is that accurate?
but...considering that I did just convert my diesel bus to run on recycled vegetable oil (only took a half day), i wonder if it is possible/easy to modify the civic to accept this type of fuel?:confused:
I also read that a hybrid could potentially get even better MPG with this fuel (although I'm not certain of that by any means).

any info would be appreciated!

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

The manual specifically says the Civic can "operate on oxygenated gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol by volume and up to 15% MTBE by volume". But when people talk about "ethanol" they usually mean E85, which is 85% ethanol. So no, sorry! Of course, someone did do an experiment using E85 in a non-flex fuel vehicle and it turned out OK.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

If you cover the top of your car with highly efficient solar cells you will get at MOST 2-400 watts in perfect conditions. The drag created by your solar cells will probably negate the benefits of the low power output unless you use flexible cells which are much less efficient to begin with.


Controllers that boost up the output of a solar cell to charge a battery are very common. I don't know what method the computer uses to calculate the state of charge of the battery pack though, so I don't know if you could just boost up the voltage from the cells and pump energy into the battery (which would be the easiest method)

In any case, if you DO try to hook up something to the HV pack, obviously be very careful. DC is much more dangerous than AC. Don't run any high voltage wires. If you have something that boosts up the low voltage to HV or HV to LV, put it right next to existing HV wires and only run your low-voltage wires.

-
M

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

The benefit of a solar cell on a civic (IMA and 12VDC) is not economy, it is extended life of the battery itself. An intergraded solar charging system would be beneficial, but would not charge the batteries while the car is in use. I have not gotten into the charging management controller design yet but initial research is promising. as far as making them external to the vehicle, I do not have the inclination to permentantly mount them to the car(due to curvature of external structure. I intend to have the panels sit atop a car cover and have a quick disconnect. I am about to replace my 06' Civic's IMA battery and want to integrate this design during the swap.

To provide enough solar energy to offset the A/C could be accomplished with 3 panels, but placement will be challenging. Thankfully only minor modification would be needed to power the 12V systems with solar. Even the Prius modifications could be modified to adapt to the 12V side.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Your belief that this will in some way extend the life of the IMA battery is incorrect. Frequent charging to > 80% SoC will accelerate cycle wear on the battery, induce capacity loss due to voltage depression, demonstrate progressive deteriorated performance and eventually increase the likelihood of single cell failure under heavy assist. Period. This is how this chemistry works.

Your proposed activity will void the warranty of any pack you buy as you are conducting "misuse" and "abuse" of the product.

You would be much better served by incorporating a preventative maintenance charge @ 350mA for 8-12 hours every 3-6 months.

I'm not sure what you're talking about "offsetting the A/C". Do you have any idea how much power the A/C uses? The total combined mechanical/electric power use is about 2kW. When it's in all-electric mode when maintaining a set-temp, it's around 500-800W. Not sure how you'll offset that with solar.

A simple solar IMA charging system is pretty easy. You need:

150W worth of solar panels.
100W 12VDC/AC inverter
2X LPC-35-350 LED PSU
2X 1A/400V diodes
PWM fan controller capable of limiting the blower to about 25W draw (it can pull 100W pretty easy at max blast).

Good luck,

Steve

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Thank you S Keith that information is of great help. I forgot about the constant recharging damaging the battery type. I am a new hybrid owner and am trying to learn all I can about them. the solar cells themselves would not directly offset the A/C power but a secondary battery with cells charging it could offset the total usage (yes I understand adding weight also lowers fuel efficiency). The 12V battery solar charging setup listed earlier in the thread I have already set up to maintain the starter battery.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Anything that can be done to help the 12V battery is beneficial. Honda consistently keeps the battery at a lower state of charge, and it shortens battery life.

I upgraded the 151R to a 51R with about 40% more capacity. I had to discard the shrouds, but it seemed to work much better.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Please define "frequent". Is once a day "frequent"?

My daily commute is 7 miles, and it is ~400 ft higher at one end than the other. The IMA controller isn't bright about how it handles this so on arrival at work (the uphill direction) the IMA is usually below 50% SOC, and on arrival at home it is usually near 100% SOC. Every day I go to work the HCHI cycles between those extremes.

I have not had great luck with IMA battery longevity and had always assumed it was mostly related to the brutal heat we have here in the summer. It had not crossed my mind that long downhill runs, especially at a very gentle slope, might also be a problem.

Re: Plug-in or Solar Civic
 

Yes. Once a day is frequent.


No. A full gauge does not indicate 100% SoC but typically something around or just about 80%, so the context in which that statement was made does not apply to you.


Yes. Daily full or near-full usable range cycling accelerates battery wear.


Yes. Heat is the worst of all.


Yes. You have the worst of both worlds (heat and hills).