I'll conclude by saying while I drive for economy most of the time (or at least kind of that way), I've sped more than I'm proud of.

The increased costs of cruising at around 80mph seems to negate a lot of the fun, if that's the reason for doing so. Saving money just does not seem like a priority going at that speed. I don't think slowing down to at least 70 is going to get you killed, although in such situations (fast pack speed), I've killed my pride (not easy for me).

I rest my case...

 

70 is not at all dangerous or anything, but again, I'm not trying to be practical, just having fun while remaining safe. But keep in mind my car is EPA rated at 28mpg highway, and at 80-90mph I get 26mpg. So the difference is insignificant and there's no reason not to speed.

Now, with a hybrid, obviously the tables turn. I still really enjoy driving fast but there is at least a good reason for not doing so, so maybe eventually I'll ease up. But I still want a car that can handle it well. I'm really pretty certain, based on my observations, that a more powerful engine such as is in the Prius or 2006 HCH will get me my desired mileage. I'll find out when I rent the Prius this weekend.

 

I would agree with you on this one. The hybrid philosophy is to offer more powerful acceleration without the inefficiency/friction of a larger engine. It woudl be more appropriate to compare the mileage of an Accord Hybrid to a V8 car with similar power.

A better way to accomplish faster acceleration but still with 40+mpg mileage for the Accord, IMHO, would have been to use a much larger electric motor along with a stright-4 engine, then use capacitors for short-duration, high-intensity "bursts" of electric output, for those jackrabbit starts. In additoin, have the standard battery pack for regenerative braking, lighter assist, and to constantly replenish the capacitors.

I also agree that the hybrid cars should be able to offer improved FE over normal cars at least up to the 75-80 mph range. As it is, there is a huge mileage drop faster than 70mph on the HCH as it can no longer maintain lean burn (this is what enables 60+mpg at 65mph). For long road trips on interstates with 70-75mph speed limits, this drops my mileage to mid 40s in the slow lane.

A car that would offer ideal mileage for CGameProgrammer's driving style would be a IMA hybrid with an ICE just powerful enough to cruise in lean burn at a steady 85-90mph, or that could run in normal burn with a taller gear.

I personally believe this was a bad engineering call on the part of Honda. The majority of drivers on the highway cruise faster than 70 on a daily basis. Staying "with the flow" of traffic, ie zero differential speed, is safer than driving significantly slower than other for the sake of fuel economy (including when 55mph was the speed limit during the 70s fuel crisis). I personally drive the slowest I can safely get away with for the sake of fuel economy (65mph), but I'm in the minority on the road.

Offering IMA behavior "settings" to the driver would be a solution to the battery wear-and-tear problem, such as a long-hill-climbing or fast crusing mode that would hold off using the battery as much. (another option would be a passing or short hill climing mode for more repsonsive assist)

 

I hate to dissapoint but I have little to say. The HCH is not for everyone. When I was younger I drove fast too. I think it is a good idea to have posts that expose the weaknesses of our beloved cars. Sometimes we are too love-sick to see any faults with our cars.

I've been totally happy with my HCH on my regular commute to work but I've been dissapointed with the mileage at highway speeds. Might as well be honest about it.

 

Hi CGameProgrammer:
___I drove much of Southern California last year. From Arizona to Yosemite, over to San Francisco, back down through LA County, and then back out to Arizona. Yes, everybody must have been going 80 + mph all the time. Except when we were sitting in LA’s famous rush hour, driving through downtown SanFran during theirs, or when driving the Interstate in the far right lanes. Through all of that I was hitting ~ 35 mpg in a non-setup Avis rented Buick LeSabre loaded to max with family and gear. Maybe you should consider one of those? We were not doing 80 mph at any point and I was not holding up traffic either. Do you know what a head on at 80 + mph turns into? They bring in a guy with a spatula because there is not much left besides goo left on the pavement.

___I suppose everyone is driving at that stupid a speed all the time? They are not but I will let you tell us what you perceive the speeds are that you see each and every day. Maybe you need to hang out in the far right lane for a commute or two? Those OTR drivers with stopping distance measured in ¼’s of a mile are not all driving at 80 + but you may have failed to notice them?

___If I had just jumped off the turnip truck, your statement might have some validity. I have not and you do not have a clue because you not only have never hypermiled at any speed range let alone beyond the local speed limits. Apparently, you do not know the first thing about a given automobiles FE though a given speed range. That and at what speed range a given automobile of any type can best be hypermiled in?

___Because driving 20 - 30 mph over the posted limits in the same thread telling us why you thought the HCH sucks is idiotic.

___Have you ever driven an AH? Have you ever hypermiled one? It is a great automobile for those that want a 255 HP capable automobile. To drive 80 + mph, you do not need 255 HP. Have you ever driven an AH at 80 + mph? VCM is shot so you are running with a V6 that is now EPA rated at just 30 mpg highway per the EPA or OEM manufacturer’s treadmills running the HWFET cycle. Maybe a bit more given the fifth and final’s are almost 8% taller in the AH then the non-hybrid J30 or K24 Auto’s. Even with that, at 80 +, the real world FE will be a lot less.

___Because you are not willing to achieve higher FE given your minimum stated 80 + mph speed. You have already said the HCH sucks in terms of FE at that speed. What you do not know is that all cars suck in the FE department if all you received in an HCH was 26 mpg no matter what the speed.

___I think you will find yourself receiving horrendous FE no matter what you decide to drive given your poor FE performance in the HCH per YOUR test drive. I hope you use the tools available to you to improve but from your tone, you will not. Unfortunately for anyone reading your threads title, you bashed the HCH when you did not have the first clue as to what you were doing let alone what the HCH’s capabilities are

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Ah, but I do not drive in downtown LA or San Francisco or on the far right lane. In fact, when I have been in LA, I avoided the highways at all costs since traffic was usually at a standstill.

Where did this come from? I have never been in an accident of any sort. I am a safe driver. When you drive significantly slower than surrounding traffic, that is dangerous, not safe. When I drove on I-5 from Sacramento to LA, I maintained 90mph and was constantly passed by people going 100mph, though I also passed a bunch of people going 80mph, such as 18-wheelers. Yup, 18-wheelers going 80mph were the norm. Road speeds vary wildly depending on where you are. Where I grew up in New Jersey, I'd go 70-75 on the highway, since that's what everyone else was doing. I always go with the flow.

Who said anything about hypermiling? Did anything in my post give any indication that I was trying to do that? Hypermilers are an *extreme* minority. Even most hybrid drivers do not hypermile. Remember that most hybrid drivers do not post online about it either. But there's this stereotype of hybrids only being appealing to hyper-milers. You view the world as black and white -- either people are interested in maximizing their mileage at all costs, or they have no interest whatsoever in what mileage they're getting and are perfectly satisfied with 11mpg.

Well it appears some other "idiots" agreed with me. I think you need to relax. The HCH performed worse than the Prius, Insight (or so I hear), and my own car during highway cruising.

Yes, that's why I test-drove one and that's why I praised it in my post. Actually, the reason I'm not buying it is because it only comes in leather and is a bit expensive, but in any case I do prefer higher mileage and I don't need 255hp or a 0-80 time of 11 seconds.

Yeah like my current car, which is 115hp and works just fine, or the 110hp Prius, or the upcoming 115hp 2006 HCH.

Is that why I'm going to buy a car that gets better FE at 80mph? Because I don't care about getting better FE at 80mph?

Except for the Prius you mean.

You have a point about the title, I'll grant you that. I didn't mean to say the HCH was bad, just that I was displeased with it. Maybe "fairly disappointed" would be more accurate.

 

Lakedude speaking in Moderator voice:

Gents please keep it civil.

 

I just checked the Prius I (Beta, Japan-only) simulator and it only gets ~25 MPG at 80 MPH, with it's engine spinning at ~4000rpm (max) and the Prius techs said they has significant problems with that version of the Prius when they brought it to the US for testing. It would use too much "assist" and eventually run the battery low (40% real charge), turning on the turtle icon light (no assist while it charges to 50% real charge) and so they gave the Prius I (2000-2003) a little more power (70HP, 4500rpm engine), and a slightly bigger traction motor/battery that pretty much solved the turtle light problem, but they left the icon there. The Prius II got another HP boost from the ICE (76HP, 5000rpm) and a huge traction motor adding to it's ability to apply torque to the wheels in a big way, so even though the car got bigger and heavier it also got quicker and more energy efficient at the same time and they eliminated the turtle light. Sadly the handling is so far from sporty that it might as well have an even smoother "luxury" type feel to it. Supposedly Toyota has upgraded the suspension in the 2006 model, hopefully it will be a bit better (like the improvement from Prius I to Prius II) but there's still probably going to be room for improving.

 

Please don't take this as offence CGameProgrammer but looking at your posts I'd have to agree with Lakedude on this.

It seems like you may need a few more miles/years behind you before you're ready for any of these cars.

 

....I'm responding again like I promised not to.

{calm voice}

• I was expecting the Honda CRV to be the first hybrid SUV two years ago. I fully expected bad reviews very similar to this thread on the HCH. I was expecting Honda to get slammed for the hybrid battery recal and recharge for twenty minutes after twenty minutes of agressive driving. I've done it - it's called "user error".
• No hybrid was ever intended for extended full-throttle or high-speed cruising. Doing so uses more than an occasional boost from the battery and wears it out. Don't get a hybrid if you drive anything like all-out all the time.
• The Prius had the engine beefed up before it was sold in the US {hint}.
• While I know several places that the pack goes at 75mph, to hear the thread-starter suggest 70 is too slow indicates a distorted look at reality, just like he is accusing xcel of having.

I'd like to find another planet like Earth and not have to live in the economic and ecologicaly mess that will happen from the horde of people that dismiss the "tiny hybrid minority". If not that, I'd like to be like Dogbert and make money from the gasaholics that insist they can do what they are doing indefinitely.