What happens after 150k miles?
 

I'm considering buying an older, high-mileage Insight as a second car to compliment my '05 Escape Hybrid AWD, for long trips when AWD is not needed. No specific car in mind yet, just looking around. The original warranty takes care of the batteries to 150k miles, but what potential problems and expenses lurk after that point? Anyone have any experience with maintenance issues on a high-mileage Insight, or tips on what to look for in such a car? Thanks!

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

I would look for one that had the IMA battery replaced recently.

My Insight has very low miles, so that's the only advice I can give.

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

How much does the battery pack cost when the car is out of warranty?

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

My battery advise is to not "lugg" a 5-speed Insight. Even if you don't lugg, upshifting early on a hard acceleration puts a big drain on the battery pack - DON"T DO IT. The Insight is not a sports car and should not be driven that way. The early Insights (2000 & 2001) had MCM and BCM module problems so I'd make sure they are corrected so the miminum battery pack charge is at least 40% or a dead 12-volt battery does not drain the hybrid battery pack. Finally, I'd park the Insight in the shade in hot weather and run the A/C at least some of the time to avoid battery overheating.

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

Thanks for the advice. The owner of one 2001 car I'm considering just had the battery modules replaced under warranty. He says it was a $2,000 job. (On paper, of course. It didn't cost him anything.)

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

battery pack do cost a lot.

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

Jerry Damson Honda Wanted $6200 To Replace My Ima Battery System A Few Weeks Back When My Ima Light Started Comming On. So Far, My Milage Hasn't Suffered Much From Ignoring It. They Said It Probably Wouldn't Hurt To Not Replace It And I Still Love My Lil' 2000 Insight With It's Nearly 200,000 Miles On It. PJ

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

it wont hurt not to replace it until it stops charging up the 12 volt battery in the front. then you are walking, just like any "normal" car.

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

Umm... what about this solution: instead of replacing the battery pack when it dies... remove it along with the electric motor and install a normal starter for the car. The reduced weight will make up for the loss of electric power. :D you'll still get a bazillion miles to the moon.

How much do the electric motor and battery pack weigh? With those units the car weighs, what, 1950lbs? So unless they are very light, taking out the electric motor and battery would be a very significant weight reduction for the car. And since the electric motor only produces 7hp, your weight to horsepower ratio will probably actually increase instead of decrease. Of course you'll have way less torque. Not sure how that will effect performance or if the gear ratios and transmission can handle that. Scary thing is, would this reveal the hybrid system to be a bunch of marketing hoo-haa? Has anyone done this to an insight?

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

it already has a 12 volt starter. its used when the temp is either very high or very low. or when there is a problem with the traction battery system.

the car is perfectly drivable without the assist. its just slower getting up to speed. think geo metro. i kill the assist during the engine warm-up period on my commute to keep my mpgs high.

as for marketing hoo-haa, if you get rid of the assist and replace it with a bigger engine, it _will_ burn more fuel. how much depends on how you drive it.

btw, you will also need a way to charge the 12 volt battery. the assist motor is the alternator, via the traction battery and a dc-dc converter.

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

No one said anything about putting in a bigger motor. Just leave the puny 1.0 litre 67 horsepower motor in there. The weight reduction of removing the hybrid system will result in a greater horsepower to weight ratio anyway. The elctric motor produces 6 horsepower, not 7 hehe. So replace nothing, just remove the electric motor and its battery pack. What would the car weigh then? What would its horsepower to weight ratio be then? Interesting questions. Maybe in a few years when I can afford a 2000 Insight with 160,000 miles I'll buy one and when the battery in it dies, I'll try it! :D And remember, there's always engine off coasting and bump starting. :P

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

the big thing you would lose is torque. The IMA takes it from 66 to 91 ft-lbs. thats a big jump in a little car.

the battery module weighs 48 lbs. theres probably another 100 or so to be tossed from the back of the car, plus the IMA motor (20-30 lbs?). so thats a drop of less than 10% of the cars weight. add back a way to charge the 12 volt battery. and dont forget the battery system is also used to smooth out the power pulses of that little 3-cylinder.

all-in-all, i would go full electric before i went 1-liter gas only. i would rather have a little pocket rocket that i plug in at night than a cute little car that cant get out of its own way.

ymmv!!!

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

what is ymmv? I've seen it before but can't decipher! I agree, all electric would be sweet, but I'm still curious what the FE difference and performance difference would be. Btw, how do you like your Sumitomo tires? Good LLR? I'm looking for good tires for my '93 Civic VX. 13/65/175

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

your milage may vary. :)

as for the sumis, i love them! lots of grip, the car is very stable on the highway, unlike the oem tires. but even though they are considered lrr tires, i am still giving up about 12% (8mpg) compared to the oem re92 potenzas.

however, my last tank was 78.2 mpg, and thats using 10% ethanol (3% energy loss). not too bad, considering. ;)

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

I think I read somewhere that the Insight turns back into a pumpkin at 150,001 miles. I could be wrong, however ;)

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

Wasn't this part of their design to be environmentally friendly so as to not end up in junkyards or landfills before the cars die and get sent to the dump?

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

i like pumpkin! mostly pie! tough to commute in though...

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

The IMA motor is sandwiched between the engine and transmission and also acts as the flywheel for the engine. It cannot easily be removed.

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

Besides that, the motor doesn't weigh very much. You'd be much better off buying a set of junkyard batteries from a Insight that had been clobbered in a wreck. I wonder if the HCH and Insight use the same batteries? If so, you could scavenge one of those packs (since the HCH is a more commonly sold vehicle)

Re: What happens after 150k miles?
 

I'm not so sure about that yet, look up the "K-Sight," which is an Insight with its hybrid powertrain removed and a Honda K20 motor installed. The motor was tuned to 200whp and the owner claimed 47 US MPG at first, including a few dyno runs. He believes 55 US MPG is attainable after tuning and mostly normal driving. Not bad for a performance-oriented setup. A smaller high-compression lean-burn ICE motor from an old Honda Civic might yield impressive MPG in an Insight, with enough power to scoot.

I'm dreaming of an Insight with a 240ft-lb Honda diesel engine for ultimate MPG, or VW's turbocharged 3 cylinder 1.2L aluminum diesel engine. Another Insight with batteries only (100km range) would be nice too.

Mark