GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybrid
 

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

You know this means we're going to need a few 'enhancements' to GreenHybrid.com. For example, more database entries and forums. Also, the "Introduction" will need someway we can send a "Welcome" message to the hords of new hybrid owners who will find their way here. <GRINS>

Was there any mention of adding a simple "MPG" gauge to the hybrids too??

Bob Wilson

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

Protester commends GM's Waggoner.
This is cool: http://photos.reuters.com/tv/videoCh...66f590b1d341ef

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

That's pretty funny. But honestly, did anyone EXPECT him to take the bait?

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

I am glad that GM is upgrading the VUE to 2mode. A SUV is just too big of a vehicle to really benefit from BAS. Now, sticking BAS into an Aevo or an Aura wouldn't be a bad idea, however.

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

Unfortunately, the CEO wouldn't sign a pledge to be the leader in FE by 2010.

You can see the video here:
http://ran.org/

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

If they can't include an MPG gage in the instrument cluster, they are 'faking it.'

I'll be sending 'letters to the editor' of the major car publications and 'editorial' writers pointing out this fundamental flaw. What a brain-dead, obvious screw-up.

Bob Wilson

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

I have a Saturn Vue, FWD, 5-speed manual. The sticker says mileage of 29 on the highway, but, of course, I get less. Still, I find that I get around 25 mpg overall, which is impressive (as it's city and highway).

The Vue hybrid is also a FWD only vehicle (which is a bit of a strike as no 4WD version is available). Owners on Saturn forums, so far, are not impressed. The vehicle bounces from 21-27 mpg. In other words, the hybrid is very similar to the 5-speed manual. There doesn't seem to be any real difference, other than price.

Granted, the Vue hybrid is far less expensive than the FEH or especially the Toyota Highlander hybrid, but FEH owners are reporting mpg in the 30's, not 20's. There is an obvious difference between the FEH and normal Escape in terms of mileage, whereas, from what I've read of Saturn owners (and being one myself), this is not true for the Vue.

Therefore, if GM really wants to compete, they have to do a LOT better job on their hybrids than what they are doing now. To get, at best, 2-3 mpg more than the non-hybrid version (and even that's not guaranteed), will not have buyers rushing for those vehicles.

Perhaps their plug-ins will be better, but I'm not sure how buyers will respond there either. I think the huge advantage of Prius or FEH or Highlander Hybrid and even the Vue hybrid, is that they do NOT have to be plugged in. People can treat them just like their normal cars (relatively speaking). If someone forgets to plug in their car at night, will they be unable to get to work in the morning? I know this will be a concern with buyers.

In other words, GM is not only late to the "hybrid game", but they have work to do.

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

doctoru2, if you don't plug-in a plug-in hybrid, it behaves just like an ordinary non-plug hybrid (like a Prius). So you will still be able to get to work even if you never plug-in, it will just cost more dollars and CO2.

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

I own the 2007 Vue Green Line Hybrid. The Vue did not have a CPU already integrated into the car to show real time mileage. GM chose not to upgrade the vehicle. The 2008 model, which is a completely new entity will have this I'm sure and as a two-mode Hybrid should perform well. I'm buying a ScanGauge to add onto my car to get real time data on mileage performance. I'm glad to see GM moving down the path to better mileage and newer technology.

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

If true, then I also applaud GM.

I have a Saturn Vue now - a 4-cyl, 5-speed manual, with FWD. Based on the posts I've seen here, I get about as good mileage - if not better(!) - with my vehicle when compared to the Saturn Vue Hybrid! Saturn compares their Vue Hybrid to their 6-cyl AWD vehicle, which is unfair, especially as the Hybrid is FWD. To me, it's better just to get the vehicle I have rather than pay thousands more for a vehicle that's really not that much better (if at all).

In contrast, the FEH does get improved mileage and has many more features, so to me, that's worth the upgrade. I'd love the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, but that's floating above $41K (once I add a few features I want), which is too expensive for me. :cry:

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

The correct mileage comparison is to the FWD 4 Cylinder automatic, and I believe that is what GM uses when they say there is a 20% improvement. the normal FWD 4 cylinder is EPA rated at 22/27 and the hybrid is 27/32. that's about 20% higher on average.

We have had an active discussion on SaturnFans.com with several of the people that are posting mileage here. The mileage range of what people are getting in the real world is 23-29(sample size is only 5 right now). The main difference we have been seeing is the pattern of useage:

I get 24.2 mpg, but I commute 7 miles to work and stop 6-8 times in the commute that lasts 15 minutes. The car is just warming up when I'm at work. The person who gets 29 goes about 21 miles and only stops a couple of times. I hope we get more users on this site so we can learn about their patterns. It's all a bit moot since the 2008 Hybird Vue will be a true two-mode hybrid that can run electric-only mode which the 2007 cannot.

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

I have seen Saturn compare their Hybrid to their 6cyl vehicle. However, I do not have a source, so if I am incorrect, I apologize.

My 4-cyl., manual was EPA rated for 29 on the highway and 24 in the city (not the numbers you quoted). Perhaps this changed for the '07 model, but that's what it was when I bought the '06 model in '05. In fact, this good mileage is one reason I bought the vehicle. With these numbers, the mileage is similar to the hybrid Vue, if not a bit better. Given that the Hybrid Vue is also a FWD, I'm not sure it's worth several thousand more.

I acknowledge that the data set is low. However, even with these limited numbers, I'm not impressed.

Therefore, I hope GM gets their hybrid mileage values up. And I also look forward to getting more data from other Hybrid Vue owners. I hope to buy a hybrid this year. The Hybrid Vue is a good choice as it's comparatively inexpensive and I've been impressed with my Vue. But as of this moment, I'm not leaning towards the Hybrid Vue.

Re: GM unveils new hybrid models for 2008 and announces plan to develop plug-in hybri
 

Doc,
The comparision I am referring to is on the Saturn website when they announced the 2007 Hybrid Vue which compares to FWD 4 Cylinder Auto:
http://www.saturn.com/aboutus2/news/index.jsp


If you are looking to buy a hybrid, the first question is does it need to be an SUV? If the answer is yes, then I went the Vue way because it was dramatically cheaper than the Highlander (41K) or Mariner(28K) The Mariner was my second choice as I really didn't like the Escape as much, but I did think the Mariner with leather looked pretty good.

My recommendation would also depend on what type of driving you do. For more highway driving I think the 2007 Vue does pretty well, and would be very close to the Escape/Mariner Hybrid for a lot less money. The Escape/Mariner would do better in the city, but the car is still much more expensive(3-5K). It will take many miles to get the money back on such a cost differential if saving money is your only aim.

As you seem to, I really like the styling and fit of the Vue and prefer it to the Escape/Mariner styling. If you can, wait until 2008 and get the new two-mode Vue. It will probably cost more than $23K however.