Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

This does not surprise me. Toyota also makes a lot of reliable economy cars too. GM hasn't innovated in 30 years and mostly makes hulks that are shot by 70k mile.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Sad news!

Back in the 50s, a GM executive said something to the tone of: "Whatever is good for GM, is also good for America". Not the exact quote, but similar meaning.

Unfortunately, the reverse is also true. GM relinquishing the title of the world's largest manufacturer, is part of a larger picture where the US is rapidly being overtaken in the manufacturing and technology sector.

As much as I dislike GM, these are sad news. Sad news indeed.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

So whatever's good for Exxon/Mobil and Texaco is good for America, right? As long as the big oil companies are making a ton of money, that's good for America? Same thing. GM is a giant multinational that (tries to) make as much profit off selling overpriced goods. Don't even try to pretend they're any different either. People try to say oil should be zero profit because you NEED it for your car. Well if you NEED oil so much, then you must need your car even more because the car is the item that needs the oil in the first place! Anyone calling for oil companies to make zero profit should be happy that GM has zero profit too. Car companies and oil companies are in the exact same business - selling a product you're addicted to at whatever price they want to charge.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

GM needs to figure out their problems or they will cease to exist.

Part of their problem is not making innovative, "quality is Job One" vehicles. I mean look at the ridiculous new HHR vehicle - what, did someone look at the PT Cruiser and say, "Man, we gotta get us one of THOSE in our line !!" That vehicle is idiotic, and the sales of the PT Cruiser should have indicated to them that the HHR will be a joke.

Part two of their problem is offering such generous and ridiculous benefit packages that they are almost committing business suicide.

Part three of their problem is the "old school mentality" of running the company and the accompanied failure in modernizing their entire operation, from HR to Bolts.

I feel for their employees who might suffer layoffs or early retirement or reduced benefits, but a lot of their problem is of their own doing.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

GM in the past, Walmart today: Huge companies that were/are barometers of the nations' economy. When GM goes bankrupt, the repercussions are going to be felt all across the country.

GM (and most recently Walmart) complain that the workforce is obese and sickly ..
Guess what ? They are microcosms of the nation. I personally think GM and Walmart stink and do not shop at either one, but it is imprudent to ignore them. Their realities are your realities.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Good! My point EXACTLY!
Since automaking is primarily a high-tech design and manufacturing endeavor, the failing of GM, Ford and their autoparts suppliers (Delphi, Visteon, etc) will impact the standard of living one way or another.

Re: to put this into perspective....
 

Quote: "Helped by a reputation for building reliable and fuel-efficient vehicles, Toyota is picking up market share from loss-riddled GM in the U.S. company's home market."

To put this into perspective;
My very first vehicle I owned was a well-worn and battered 1962 Toyota Land Cruiser. It had 11 well travelled years on it and the 5 digit odometer had reset to zero a couple of times.

Since the body and frame were so sturdy and good shape, I decided to overhaul the engine.

This is the kicker: Toyota back then had licenced the engine design from General Motors, the rugged and dependable 230 CID six-inline light truck engine.

I know, because during the overhaul, I used stock Chevrolet pistons, rings, valves, etc, and they just fit right in.

Back then Toyota did not have the technology to design dependable engines. Who would have thought back then, that a few decades later, the reverse would be true.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

GM owns a chunk of Toyota, so what's good for Toyota is good for GM. Toyota also has quite a few manufacturing plants in North America, and is building more, so if Toyota is taking over sales and employment, is it not better to have a fiscally responsible and quality oriented corporation employing people?

On the other hand, this is pushing GM to shake things up and re-think their plans that had included years of big vehicles, competition in the "free" market is supposed to move us along, and those that can't keep up are just left behind. If GM really want to stick around they will adapt and evolve.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

The good news: The stock you own in that other company has appreciated
The bad news: Your company is heading towards bankruptcy.

All in all, just another day at GM, and nothing to worry about. Right ?

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

That's the bottom line. They're not the fittest in an industry of survival.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Weeding out the old school, old guard, stagnation of a nation is a bad thing??? This is how societies cleanse - either you change or you die.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

No; I'm not saying that economic Darwinism is a bad thing. Only that it is a sad thing.... because the companies that are overtaking it, are no longer USA companies.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Of course, the "American" companies are all run by greedy, fat, white, Republican men who have shipped most of the decent-paying American jobs to Third World hellholes so they themselves can get 1.2 billion dollar bonuses for ruining major corporations and trashing the economy at the same time.

The "Foreign" companies like Honda and Toyota both have factories in the United States, while the Big Three prefer their cars made in Mexico where the workers get paid $1.50/hour. No wonder there's no innovation with the Big Three, and that their quality sucks.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Hi AshenGrey:
___My Ford Ranger was manufactured in the Twin Cities by American UAW members. The Ranger is by far the best truck I have ever owned in terms of price, FE, build quality, and towing capability for a small P/U truck. Maybe I should have driven the Ranger all summer to show you what an All-American P/U is worth in the FE department too :omg: Or maybe you would rather not know ;)

___Do you want to hear about some of the other Ford manufacturing facilities in Chicago, IL., Dearborn, Flat Rock, Wayne, and Wixom, MI., Louisville, KY., Kansas City (Claycomo) and St. Louis (Hazelwood), MO., Lorain and Avon Lake, OH., St. Paul, MN. (mentioned above), Norfolk, VA., Edison, NJ. which is also building the B-Series Mazda trucks, and Atlanta, GA.? I am not including the stamping, tranny, and ICE plants throughout much of the US. I will leave it to somebody else to figure out how many Honda automobiles were manufactured in Marysville and Lincoln by comparison …

___Given the Japanese manufactured Corolla has had a CAT replaced at 58K, a water pump at 72K, and the plastic storage tray (it costs over $250 :angry:) broke around the 25,000 mile mark … I haven’t seen all that much difference in quality between an American designed and built small truck and a Japanese designed and built small sedan?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

You're being too nice to Garbage Motors. My wife's '84 Pontiac should have come with a tape recording that said "This car will self-destruct in three years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first." :angry: OTOH, my '84 Civic had nearly 180K miles when I traded it in for a '90 Corolla, which in turn was going strong at 320K miles when I traded it in back in March for my HCH.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Noting the fact that the American auto companies are a) behind the 8-ball on hybrid development (yes- their own fault, I know), and that they're losing over 1,000 per car they build (staggering health care costs via the UAW), and that the Japanese companies are eating their lunch with the hybrids, I've recently come to believe that the American oil companies should make a deal with the gov't and the auto companies and the UAW. The deal would be:

To avoid some kind of 'windfall profits' taxation, the oil companies should fund the American auto companies' hybrid research programs with the stipulation that the UAW get their medical costs to the auto companies under control.

US wins because of lessened ME oil demand.
Auto companies win because of increased market share due to more fuel efficient vehicles.
Oil companies win because their taxation won't be excessively punative.
Unions win because more auto sales mean more workers and maybe even bonuses som e day!

I only buy fuel produced from domestic or North Atlantic crude. No mid-east oil!!!!!

Don

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

AshenGrey, you are stereotyping people which as you know isn’t right!

My Chevy Tahoe was built in Arlington, Texas. Some of the parts yes are made in Mexico that is true but most of the parts and assembly is here in the US. When Honda built it’s assembly plant in Ohio the machinery and equipment was brought from Japan, they would not allow tools and equipment from here. US manufactured equipment for assembly is second to none.Kevin

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

How ?

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can prove you are buying non-OPEC oil. If the global oil supply is greatly over the consumer demand, it's hurting Middle East oil....I'm very skeptical of this....

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Oil is traded on the open market. Regardless of where you fuel your vehicle or get your heating oil, there is NO WAY to avoid getting open market oil, which means it comes from anywhere. You may have a chain letter that suggests otherwise, but that doesn't make it true, it only makes you a good candidate to purchase a beautiful bridge I currently have for sale. Great financing terms available, low money down!

On the subject of GM, really all the problems come down to management. Even the healthcare costs can be fixed by management. We're seeing Delphi doing major restructuring of their labor contracts now that they're in bankruptcy and just a month ago GM anounced that labor conceeded a billion dollars a year in health care costs. GM's got a solid business model and they can work there way out of this hole.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Arco and British Petroleum use North Atlantic oil. There are others, especially around the Gulf coast. Mobile, Shell, and many other companies do indeed use Opec oil, most of which is pumped out of the middle east.

Don

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

Again, first off, I can tell you that there's a gazillion source tables like this one that indicate country of origin, but none of it means anything at the pump. Do you know how many different types of gasoline we get in Arizona, for example? Two. One from a pipeline who's origin is Texas and one from a pipeline that originates in California. Las Vegas has ONE pipeline for the whole place! All gasoline comes from the fuel farms and in theory, the individual brands get to mix in their additives before it's trucked to the individual stations, but I can't guarantee that ever happens. Since there's only one fuel farm in all of Phoenix, we're all using gas that was made with oil from all over the world. Pretty near every city in the country is like that. Statements like "I went to an Arco today which means it came from Canadian oil" is pure hogwash.

By the way, you're pre-approved on the loan for my bridge in New York. PM me and I'll give you the P.O. Box to mail a cashiers check payable to CASH to for your down payment.

Re: Toyota to put GM in rearview mirror
 

No reason to be nasty about it. Boy -- mean people really suck.:cry:

If you want to be right, you can be right.

Have a really, really nice day.:D

Don

Newsweek Article on GM's Problem
 

This Newsweek Article states that GM's management was designed for a time when things changed much slower. Unfortunately events move much more rapidly and chaotically. Companies that can't adapt fail.