It's not a requirement that vehicles use ethanol, it's a requirement that vehicles be made so that they can use ethanol. It's very inexpensive for manufacturers to add the capability to vehicles but right now it's only being used to fudge the CAFE numbers. I think it's important to give people a choice when possible, and so far it's the only thing that's available as a gasoline alternative, although there are better routes, this one has scale and variety of feedstocks. At the very least it will allow the economy to grow without increasing imports from the Saudis.

 

Agreed, Schwa.
The solution is energy DIVERSITY (not in the PC social sense ). If all vehicles are FFV, then consumers will of course fill up with whatever's cheaper and/or more easily available to them. E85 doesn't need to replace gasoline, just become a large-scale complement that displaces a decent percentage of gasoline use. Likewise for biodiesel. That alone puts a decent dent in oil consumption, ssttrreettcchhing what we've got left until Marty McFly's Mr. Fusion and the flux capacitor come along.

It may be possible to grow enough crop or produce enough waste veggie oil to fuel the country (personally don't think so), it may not. Doesn't matter- that's not the goal. (Well, eventually once the dino oil runs out it will be, but that's where Mr. Fusion hopefully comes in). In the meantime, its there, its cheap, and it keeps American farmers contributing to GDP- logic requires E85/BD to be used to the fullest practical extent.

And thanks for the followon info re: spot prices, Xcel.

 

I think you're missing the point. We could mandate that cars have to be able to run on both gasoline and pixie dust, but if I can't buy pixie dust anywhere, then all they did was make my car cost another $500 for no reason. Currently there's only two E85 pumps in the state of Arizona. To put that in perspective, Arizona is 114,000 square miles. The entire country of England is about 93,000 square miles. Germany is only 20% bigger than Arizona in terms of square miles.

It's possible that we'll see a massive increase in the number of E85 pumps in the next 10 years, but that's an awfully big assumption. I'd prefer to see the government use the tools it already has (namely CAFE) rather than inventing mandates for a non-existant infrastructure. CAFE already provides credit for making a vehicle FFV anyway, but at least it's the free choice of the manufacturer to offer it or not, rather than a 100% across the board mandate.

 

Hi All:

___The link at the bottom of this post is an article mainly for GoNavy, AZCivic, Schwa, Eskrimat1, and I although I hope others here at GH will read and understand its implications as well … I read it cover to cover this morning and it was an easy enough read for the average layman to comprehend yet detailed enough including the multitude of sources to make an ECO warrior out of just about anyone imho.

___The pdf has commentary all its own as seen through the eyes of the individual that linked it over at Alternet.org:Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management

___Good Luck to us all.

___Wayne R. Gerdes

 

thanks. yumm- weekend reading.

 

I'm not missing the point, this is a chicken and egg situation. You are absolutely correct that there are far too few E85 stations around the country, but think about the situation for someone considering investing in an E85 tank and pump. Why would they bother if there are only a handfull of vehicles around that can use it? That's why there are so few outlets, no possible return on investment when there aren't any possible customers. If vehicles are coming from the factory as flex-fuel then at least the E85 station has a fighting chance to be invested into. You won't see any steps toward an alternate/bio fuel economy by sticking with the gasoline-only fleet, the "free" market has no concern for things like national security and trade balance. I think a mandate to include some changes in car software and a fuel-type sensor for $200 or less is a lot better plan than pumping money into building E85 stations that can't sell fuel until people choose one of the few flex-fuel models being offered, which people aren't likely do to since there's currently no financial incentive. It's hard to appreciate the importance of alternatives now with gas prices low and oil prices settling a bit, but the climate in the energy markets will surely change, and diversity is what will allow America to keep chugging along, ethanol / butanol for gasoline burners and biodiesel for all the heavy transport. Right now it's not feasible as in full-scale bio-fuels, but in time technology and research will bring about dramatic improvements as is already happening. Everything mixed together, including plug-in hybrids will end up being the solution, but again diversity is going to be the key to survival.