Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Yes, but those 11-150 amps are devided on different fuses. My main fuse is on 25 amp (three-phase). But most of my power cord fuses are on 10 amp (single phase) and it´s that "final fuse" that is important to handle when design/configure the charging algoritm in the car.

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

I think you have devided by 3 twice. 60 devided by 3 is 20. 20 MJ is 5.6 kWh. If you charge with 230 V, 10 Amp (=2.3kW), it would take 2.5 hour.

But it really dosen't matter. The reason why I took this up is the fact there there is a lot a people around, (not necessarily here at the forum) are paying tribute to the future of the plug-in hybrid, without really knowing anything about it. Of course we need plug-in for the future, but it will not be as easy as many thinks.

"No new infrastructure is needed" I have heard from many people. Well, that depends on what we are talking about. Charging on a single phase 10 amp power cord ONLY at home isn't enough.

Two possiblities (they are a few more)

1.You should charge at your office too.
2. Use three-phase charging instead.

Both alternatives require "new" infrastructure in most of the chases.

Then you can argue if 10 miles is "enough". I would say that we need at least 30 miles to really gain any serious advantage from the plug-in feature. Second, how many are really willing to pay extra for a "10 miles plug-in feature"?

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Actually, what I was trying to comment there is a sligth tangent to the subject. I was pointing out that clett say you only need 2.5KwH to go 10 miles. That's half of what you calculated when you assume electrical efficiency is 3 times that of ICE. I wanted to make a comment that it's more like 6 times.


Most houses that I'm aware of have many 15A circuits, and at least one two/three phase circuit for their washer/dryer.

Even with a single 15A single-phase, you can charge 10KwH in your 6hrs overnight. That's 40 mile range (using clett's mileage)

Any licensed electrician can rewire your home electrical circuit to anywhere you want, as easily as putting in a hot water heater (for example). And utility companies add two/three phase power to homes all the time. I know that not all rual area can do this effectively, but most homes/appartment can, and has already.

The infastructure IS there.

If you can afford to own a $20k + car, you are probably living where you have that infastructure.

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Those 110 - 150 amps may be divided up with many smaller fuses, but if you will sum up all the fuses in a typical house you will see that there is typically 200 amps worth of fuses on a 120 amp main feed. This does not mean you have 200 amps worth of service, but are limited to 110 amps. On the other hand, you are not limited to only install an equal capacity of sub-circuits as you have main feed service. You don't run all of your electrical equpiment at the same time do you?

I still feel it is VERY reasonable to expect the purchaser to install a dedicated charging circuit. Even better would be to have two way to charge, a slow 110 circuit and a faster 230 circuit. if the electronics were smart enough you could even program the rate of charge to neck down how many amps are drawn on each system.

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Aside: Olle73, I didnt realized you are from Sweden. I cant talk to the infastructure in Sweden, but in the US, there should be no problem (I appologized for myself for being the narrow minded american [edit: i better caveat that last statement before I get flamed! - I was only talking about myself as being narrow minded).

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

It could also be a matter of where and for how long? EV1! EV1! :omg:

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

No problem, but it facing a "problem" that the manufactures have to overcome. If you are going to sell a plug-in hybrid on different markets around the world, you have to now the "power configuration" in all countries and adapt you car to each of those configurations. That means that on some markets you might have a charingtime of 1 hour, while 3 hours on other markets.

Second, to be allowed to connect a car to the power grid the manufacture have to handle a lot of new requirements, both legal and others. I know that the automotive industri are a little bit scared of this; facing a big unknown area of new requirements. And those might be different on different markets.

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Hi Martin, I am still a little concerned, as GM showed us the 80 mpg hybrid Precept 5 years ago, yet this didn't come to fruition.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1267946.html

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Until you posted this, I had never read about the 'Precept.' I was aware of their hydraulic hybrid from the high mileage vehicle program. I hadn't realized how badly GM had managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The EV1 was perhaps marginal but crushing the cars was excessive. Electric vehicles still face significant engineering problems but not enough to require destruction. But to see the 'Precept'; the date of the review; and the subsequent GM follow-up; I'm reminded of our last GM vehicle, the Chevette and how GM walked away from the Japanese 'bread and butter' market. Is GM is capable of competing in any way shape or form?

I really don't care about GM's labor costs. If we made the workers into GM slaves and worked them for free, it still won't save a GM that continues to pull bone-headed decisions like 'crushing EV1' and abandoning the 'Precept.' The labor costs do not matter and the non-union managers and board of directors are incompetent to an extent that defies imagination.

Bob Wilson

Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
 

Olle, I too did not take the time to see that your are from Sweden, and sometimes in my rantings I forget that the WWW is World Wide. Not to sound harsh, but I don't feel limitations in one country should eliminate the possibilities in a different country. There are many fuel efficient vehicles sold in Europe that we americans don't even get to oportunity to buy. Fortunatly the US power systems is developed enought to allow plug-in hybrids, and i doubt there would be any permiting or regulations needed above what we have in place right now. I don't need a permit to plug in a high consumption device today, so i don't see me needing one to plug in a car.