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Jason 10-19-2005 03:28 PM
Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
October 10, 2005

For more information:
Chris Schneider of Honda Motorwerks
608-784-6433
or Mark Metzler of Vision Design
507-453-0767
For Immediate Release

Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test

LA CROSSE, Wis. -- Honda Motorwerks' Hybrid Drivers' Clinic and Challenge is looking for a special guest at 6 p.m. Monday October 24 in Consumer Reports' David Champion.

Champion, the senior director of the Auto Test Department at Consumer Reports, was in charge of testing that showed hybrid vehicles failing to meet EPA mileage claims. The report came out in April and showed a 2003 Honda Civic at 26 mpg in the city and 45 mpg on the highway -- 36 mpg overall, not the 48 mpg in the city and 47 mpg on the highway as the EPA claimed.

Chris Schneider, president of Honda Motorwerks and hybrid expert, believes that the Consumer Reports' numbers are wrong and would like Champion to take part in a test at Honda Motorwerks. Schneider has sent Champion an invitation and has offered to pay for Champion's air fare and accommodations if the numbers show like those reported in Consumer Reports during the Hybrid Drivers' Clinic and Challenge.

"We'll let him drive a car if he'd like," Schneider said, "I don't think you can drive a Civic Hybrid badly enough to get the numbers they reported."

During the Clinic portion of the event, Schneider will show Hybrid owners and prospective owners how to get the most mileage from their vehicles. After the clinic, Insight, Civic and Accord owners will compete against each other to see who can get the best mileage on a course set by Honda Motorwerks. The winners in each category will then be given Civic Hybrids and be asked to drive the cars poorly to see if they can replicate Champion's findings.

We look forward to you attending. If you have questions, please call Chris Schneider at 608-784-6433.

lars-ss 10-19-2005 03:40 PM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
That's FABULOUS !! I'd love to be there when that test is done. Boy, I hope CR takes the challenge !!

What in God's name did CR do to get 26 MPG in an HCH? Floor it the whole test? Drive around the block once in 100 degree heat with the A/C on Max?

tbaleno 10-19-2005 04:59 PM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
Read my post on how I got 28mpg in a civic hybrid. I'm sure I can do worse in the winter. I will try this winter so we can get a baseline low number for first gen civic hybrids.

lars-ss 10-20-2005 07:27 AM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
Tom, I can't find that post. Did you describe your technique? I am skeptical that it could be anything like a normal drive, but I'd love to read it.....:D

Pravus Prime 10-20-2005 01:24 PM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
LOL, man, I'd like to be there for that!

Cryx 03-31-2006 10:13 PM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
Based on my own experience and 2 coworkers, 45 on the highway sounds about right. I assume everyone/Honda is protesting the city rating of 26? I can see how heavy stop-n-go and crawling traffic (that disables auto-stop) could get that low.

During a recent trip to Chicago, I was running about 32 mpg in bad city traffic. Acceleration just kills the mpg. In decently flowing city traffic, I was running 50-60 mpg. I think it depends heavily on the test environment.

bwilson4web 04-01-2006 04:29 AM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
Originally Posted by Jason
October 10, 2005 . . .
The letter seems a little old but it highlights something I've felt both hybrid companies and Ford are failing at. They have failed to document and provide the instrumentation needed to achieve hyper-mileage as part of the standard package and in the owner's manual.

We know that:

  • efficient braking requires instrumentation to learn - but there is no tactile or visual indication of the transition point between regenerative and mechanical braking. We have to add OBC scanners to get that data. All it takes is a LED bar that show how much braking is going on with green lines for regenerative and another color for mechanical (not RED!)
  • pulse and glide requires teaching and instrumentation - but there is no documentation, much less supporting instrumentation so any driver could learn to drive efficiently. What is needed is an acceleration LED bar with green for the most efficient mode and another color for inefficient rates.
  • optional auto-glide - with instrumentation, we can feather the throttle for a momentum neutral coast. This should be a built-in option for the car, even if it has to be turned on each time. But today, we buy an OBC scanner and train ourselves on how to do it.
  • variable air inlet - in cold weather and under low cooling demands, air drag and heating losses can be reduced by vanes to limit air inflow. This is not rocket science and pressure from the coolant system would be more than enough to open up the vane(s). But this trivial modification does not exist in our vehicles.
  • warm-up, cruse, and cool-down navigation - inspite of the navigation systems, it won't map a warm-up section, cruise section and cool-down route. This means the driver gets just a 'fastest route' and no optional 'greenest route'.
  • MPG vs MPH chart - we have to make our own because the vendors don't put one in the Owner's Manual. Every small airplane has such a chart. It is time consuming to make but the vendors continue to fail this basic engineering task.
The hybrid car manufacturers know not only these techniques but probably a couple more we've not discovered. The key to ending this hybrid complaint, not getting EPA numbers, is to stop being secretive about what hypermilers have already discovered. Make hypermileage documentation and instrumentation standard so EPA numbers are the worst a driver or owner gets, not some puzzle that a few of us clever individuals, the hypermilers, have to figure out.

What we need is a letter, like this note, sent and signed by individual drivers and owners to our respective hybrid makers listing these problems. Fix the cars so they support hyper-mileage and Consumer Reports and the other automotive press will sing a different tune. That is what is missing.


Bob Wilson

AshenGrey 04-01-2006 04:58 AM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
Originally Posted by lars-ss
That's FABULOUS !! I'd love to be there when that test is done. Boy, I hope CR takes the challenge !!

What in God's name did CR do to get 26 MPG in an HCH? Floor it the whole test? Drive around the block once in 100 degree heat with the A/C on Max?
I got 27 MPH once by resetting Trip-A at the base of a really long incline, blasting the AC, and gunning the engine at the same time. After 7 minutes of that abuse, I managed to drainthe IMA to 2 bars too.:P

foo monkey 04-02-2006 04:30 PM
Re: Honda Motorwerks Invites Consumer Reports to Put Hybrids to the Test
 
Because Consumer Reports gives a $hit about Honda Motorwerks, a Honda dealership in Winsconsin. I'm sure they'll stake their reputation on this challenge.


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