Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Toyota says hybrid sales will be lower in 2008 than 2007, not because people don't want them, but because Toyota simply can't make any more. Bob Carter, general manager of Toyota Division, told Ad Age, that Toyota sold 181,000 Priuses in 2007 and that's simply the best they can do right now: "We can't repeat that [181,000 Prius sold in a year], no way, even though the demand may be there. We just can't keep up. So you will see much more moderate growth because of the supply," Carter said. Carter then added something ominous: "We are very committed to hybrids but it's not our position that hybrid is the solution to the future." He continues with, "We're looking at high-efficiency gasoline, clean diesel, fuel cells and the plug-in hybrid" which is a little more comforting. Toyota has said battery production is a hurdle for the introduction of plug-in cars. Batteries may be keeping more hybrids from reaching customers as well. Carter (and Toyota's Jaycie Chitwood) described Toyota's plans in great depth with ABG recently. So, Toyota, the #1 maker of hybrids is saying that, while there is hybrid demand, they have reached the limit of production. For everyone who wonders why hybrid market penetration can't go above a certain percentage of car sales, there's your reason. We've done your part and driven up demand, but apparently more work needs to be done to be able to make more hybrids. |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
When Toyota started planning the Prius, nickel cost $3/lb. Now it's $12. They have (claimed to) have engineered a lot of cost out of the hybrid drivetrain, but the big battery keeps getting more expensive.
They say it is a profitable vehicle, but I reckon the margin is slim. A business decision to put more effort into other, high-margin vehicles would not surprise me. When they can do lithium based batteries in high volume and reasonable cost, I expect increases in Prius (or Prius-like) production. Ditto for the other categories mentioned above. Maintain technological leadership, but keep the bleeding to a minimum. DAS |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
What this says to me is buy your next hybrid NOW! They ain't goin' to get any cheaper. If you have one, keep it running because they may actually appreciate.
Correction: Wait a couple more months for the recession to get worse. The prices will get better as fewer buyers show up at the dealerships. I noticed a new Camry hybrid, 60 miles, for $23,999 on Ebay (I asked my wife if I could buy it and she said, "No.") Bob Wilson |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
"We're looking at high-efficiency gasoline, clean diesel, fuel cells and the plug-in hybrid"
Hummm... Regarding the ordered priorities in that statement... I almost get this feeling of deja-vu! Sadly, look at the appendage "...and the plug-in hybrid". Wow, it almost sounds like... Honda said it. <gasp> Cheers; MSantos |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Well, they could cut back on the # of Trucks, SUV's, Mini Vans they are building and put more energy into the hybrid and more energy efficient modes of transportion. I think they are trying to milk to many areas? H
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
If gas goes to $4 per gallon, believe me, Toyota will find a way to increase production, because hybrids will sell fast and profitably.
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Maybe it's not the factory but rather how fast the suppliers can provide the necessary parts?
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Something didn't seem right so I went to the original sources to understand what they were saying. Funnily enough, it is time to put your hair out, the original 'quote' doesn't seem to match the Ad Age article:
Originally Posted by Ad Age
. . .
Ad Age: What's happening with hybrids? Mr. Carter: Our volume on Prius was up 67% last year. That was a supply-restricted 67% increase. That's 181,000 cars. We can't repeat that, no way, even though the demand may be there. We just can't keep up. So you will see much more moderate growth because of the supply.(Emphasis RJW) The company has nearly 80% of the hybrid market. There are a lot of viable competitors out there. I don't necessarily view it as what's been our competition in the past, but what's going to be our competition in the future. GM is introducing theirs, and you're going to see more activity out of the Asian manufacturers. What everybody continues to work on is not only hybrid, but what other technologies can deliver the environmental, miles-per-gallon benefits. We are very committed to hybrids but it's not our position that hybrid is the solution to the future. We're looking at high-efficiency gasoline, clean diesel, fuel cells and the plug-in hybrid. . . . http://www.hybridcars.com/news/janua...dashboard.html January is usually not a big month for car sales. This year, the New Year doldrums hit hybrids as well as the larger car market. Sales of all vehicles—hybrids included—were down by approximately 25 percent compared to December. But if we compare this month to January of last year, a familiar trend emerges: hybrid sales grew by 25 percent while the overall market declined slightly. . . . Exactly where the economy is headed, and the impact the general economic climate has on hybrid shoppers, remains to be seen. So far, year-over-year sales performance hints that some hybrid models may be recession-proof. The Toyota Prius, for example, grew 37 percent compared with last January—not bad for a four-year-old model that is nearing its next redesign. Other well-established and generally fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles—Camry, Highlander, and Escape—also seem less affected by recessionary pressures. But less fuel efficient models, such as those from Lexus, took a beating this month, indicating that hybrid and luxury are not a winning combination particularly in a lagging economy.
Originally Posted by jan08-hybrid-market-dashboard.pdf
All hybrids: 22,411 ... -27.5% (12/07) ... 24.9% (01/08)
All vehicles: 1,059,367 ... -28.8% (12/07) ... -2.9% (01/08) In contrast, we these sections that bear no relationship to ordinary reality when compared to the original sources:
Originally Posted by empowah
(Post 162220)
Originally Posted by original
Toyota says hybrid sales will be lower in 2008 than 2007, not because people don't want them, but because Toyota simply can't make any more. Bob Carter, general manager of Toyota Division, told Ad Age, that Toyota sold 181,000 Priuses in 2007 and that's simply the best they can do right now: "We can't repeat that [181,000 Prius sold in a year], no way, even though the demand may be there. We just can't keep up. So you will see much more moderate growth because of the supply," Carter said.
Carter then added something ominous: "We are very committed to hybrids but it's not our position that hybrid is the solution to the future." He continues with, "We're looking at high-efficiency gasoline, clean diesel, fuel cells and the plug-in hybrid (bald-face fantasy not in the Ad Age article rjw)" which is a little more comforting. Toyota has said battery production is a hurdle for the introduction of plug-in cars. Batteries may be keeping more hybrids from reaching customers as well. Carter (and Toyota's Jaycie Chitwood) described Toyota's plans in great depth with ABG recently. So, Toyota, the #1 maker of hybrids is saying that, while there is hybrid demand, they have reached the limit of production. For everyone who wonders why hybrid market penetration can't go above a certain percentage of car sales, there's your reason. We've done your part and driven up demand, but apparently more work needs to be done to be able to make more hybrids. Folks, this is just material quoted from a hybrid-skeptic. In this particular case, especially clueless since the source material is readily available. Bob Wilson |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
The logical move is to raise the prices on the Prius to the point where it makes sense then. Although this may not be feasible due to consumer backlash, etc but from my economics course it sounds to me like they could raise prices to make more $ and then invest that $ into improving their hybrid supply chain.
I mean if the things are selling above MSRPs they're going to have car salesmen pounding on their doors for more. And we all know how pushy that segment is :shade: |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
The original, still misleading article now has this:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02...than-last-yea/ UPDATE: Toyota responded by clarifying that Mr. Carter's quote was misinterpreted. The automaker can and will, in fact, produce more Priuses than it did last year. What it likely won't be able to do is match or exceed the rate of growth Prius production had in 2007. Bob Wilson |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Whew... That's much better !!!!
:D Cheers; MSantos |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Good catch Bob!
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Thanks for the clarification, bw.
The original post was disturbing. I'm aware that there are issues with large scale mass production of nickel metal hydride batteries (tens of millions of units). But if Toyota could not even consistently produce 200,000 battery units per year, we would be in far worse shape (in dealing with the energy challenge) than even I imagined. |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
The title to this thread repeats the misleading, topic sentence of the original article:
Originally Posted by wrong_title
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Bob Wilson ps. I checked back at the autobloggreen site and the original author doesn't seem interested in a correction. Oh well, it doesn't really matter since in 12 months we'll have the 2008 sales figures and her article will have faded into obscurity. |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
Thanks, Bob, for your tenacity!
I like title #4. It expresses the probable intent of this thread. |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
I agree with gumby. Suggestion #4 seems to be the most fitting/appropriate.
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
One might think that a slowing USA economy might also make it difficult for Toyota to exceed in 2008 what it accomplished in 2007.
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
I think battery production is a limiting reagent.... however, just a thought here....
Do you think most of the people who want(ed) a hybrid already have one? Maybe the demand is softening a little? I do see fewer and fewer newcomers to sites like these... :( I think the exponential growth is no longer there... Also, I don't think Hybrids are a mystery anymore. I have to explain my car to ever fewer people. ( I still get a few who confuse hybrid and flex fuel... so I want to make my hybrid a true flex fuel... then I'll cover all the bases. ) :shade: -John |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
I don't think it is a production limit as much as the Prius is likely to see more competition. BTW, I'm looking at the NHW11 batteries and I really don't see them limited except by possible patent holder requirements. If I understand the timing, by 2015, it will be over and we'll see NiMH batteries like nobody's business.
Bob Wilson |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
That fact of Nickel is based on the fact that they will be using NMH technology for their batteries. Lithuim Ion batteries have been in development for hybrids for several years now.........from what i've read. Toyota will continue to produce Prius's no matter what the challenges are to meet the demand.
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Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
When is a "new & improved" Prius III coming out?
Or am I behind the times, and this has already been disclosed? ( sorry, I stick pretty close to the ones I know... Fords... ) :embarass: |
Re: Toyota: "no way" we can sell more Priuses than 2007
too many rumors to keep track of. 2009...late 2010...next week...seems it'll happen when it happens.
Maybe someone with more inside tips knows and can clue us in... I for one would like a bit more definitive info on a factory plug-in from Toyota. Hello, are you listening Toyota? Next Prius a plug-in or I have to keep driving "old blue"! |
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