Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

I'm not a huge fan of hybrid performance over hybrid fuel-economy. I'd love an "ECONOMY MODE" button on our HiHy to get closer to 35MPG rather than 30, but I'd also love a "PERFORMANCE MODE" button on our Prius, too. But at least let it always be an option rather than fixed one way or the other.

Should the purchase of gas-guzzling SUVs, which won't come close to being as clean as the GS450h, be entitled to taxpayer subsidy?

Rick

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

Actually, a hybrid Humvee -- https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...mvee.5975.html

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

cleverlever wrote:Nothing wrong with selling performance AND fuel efficiency if it sells cars to people that would otherwise buy a non-hybrid. I think the upcoming Camry Hybrid will strike a good balance between horsepower and fuel economy.
It will be nice to have some choices in the 140-200hp range.

cleverlever wrote:The Tax Credit is propotional to the gas savings so a performance hybrid gets a lower subsidy, I don't have a problem with that.

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

If someone wants X amount of horsepower, and they get it by by adding a hybrid drivetrain, they're going to save a TON of gas compared to slapping a turbocharger onto their V8 to achieve the same thing. I say this a move in the right direction--expanding the potential markets for hybrid into both economy and performance will result in better efficiency in both markets.

This is one of the inconsistencies I see with the Accord Hybrid comparisons, which say it doesn't save much gas compared to the Accord I4, when it would be more accurately compared to an Accord V6 with some sort of performance mod on it. Also, a lot of the reason why the auto makers are emphasizing performance is a response to the image problem that hybrids are all underpowered economy vehicles, for the most part peopel are aware of the fuel economy aspect of the hybrids already so there's not as much reason to advertise it.

As far as I know, cars must achieve 45mpg on the EPA cycle to qualify for benefits in most states. As far as the Federal credit, that I believe is there to supplement the technology on the basis of how much the hybrid saves fuel over a comparable non-hybrid, so to be consistent, it should also receive the credit to the extent the technology saves fuel.

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

No, you're thinking of carpool stickers. To qualify for carpool stickers, a car needs to be low-pollution and get 45 mpg or better, which means only the Insight, HCH, and Prius qualify. But all hybrids qualify for the tax credit, to varying amounts.


What ender21 was referring to was a ridiculous tax break for gas-guzzling SUVs, *not* hybrids, for businesses. Basically the worst gas-guzzlers, if used only for commercial purposes, can be subsidized, but more fuel-efficient cars cannot.

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

The GS450h is also more efficient in FE than it's ICE sibling, the GS430. Maybe it's the 430 that should be de-emphasized.

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

If it saves the same amount of fuel as the Prius and HH why not. Also remember the tax credit is limited by the AMT. Those buying 60K sports cars are very very likely in the position of being subject to AMT. If so then there is no credit.. even if it's justified by the FE.

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

They want the power, pure and simple. Any collateral benefit to mileage comes along for the ride, but it's a happy coincidence. Battery-powered turbo-charger is the first and only reason to hybrid a vehicle like that. Anyone buying a $60,000 car can pay for gas and probably does not care about mileage.

They get points for continuing to advance and expand the technology, but not much else.

Yes, This is Far-Fetched
 

I think most people would think having hybrid ambulances and fire trucks a good idea once it becomes practicle (some time in the future). To do that, there needs to be more buses and big cars that use this technology.

If a few people get a 60K luxury car because it's hybrid instead of a jumbo SUV or something else that uses more gas, it's still a positive. Status and peer pressure motivates these buyers, so hopefully green becomes cool.

Re: Toyota's New Expensive Hybrid
 

Um, being pro-environment does not make one poor. There are many people who would love the 450h who would also appreciate how low-pollution it is, and how high-tech it is. And keep in mind those types of luxury cars are very high-tech already, often with tons of little gadgets and things.