Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

BEVs can be great, but they require a lot of infrastructure that we just don't have.

A hybrid doesn't require a new infrastructure. FCV's will require hydrogen production and fueling stations, but that's just a few pushpins on the map.

BEV's would require a massive increase in our power generation and distributions systems, everywhere. Where are we going to get the power?

Clean coal? May help, but it's still not renewable.

Nuclear? Too many vocal critics.

Solar? Not efficient enough (yet), and not practical in all areas.

Geothermal? Hydro? Not available in all areas. Transmission losses mean we can't just cover Arizona with solar cells, then use that power up here in the northeast. It's gotta be produced nearby.

Wind? Sadly enough, people in Martha's Vineyard and upstate New York even oppose that. (This one REALLY galls me.)

So should car companies pour their research effort into BEV's and just shrug when the price of electricity means we're all huddling around one light bulb at home? Or build the cars in hopes that the anti-nuclear types and the anti-wind types will step back, look at the big picture, and say, "Hey, I don't like it, but we need the power"?

Or should they put their effort into something that won't require the whole species to do the right thing?

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

Do the research. Read Darrell's site. Link in my last post.

Most all cars sit and do nothing at night. True? Yes, there are nightshifts and not everyone has garage access, etc. BUT...there is alot of power during these off-peak times that is WASTED. Let's use it to power our cars the next day! Over a million cars can be done this way WITHOUT any more power generation than we have now. The stats are telling. Again, read Darrell's ENTIRE site for these and more staggering numbers.

Cheers,
Curt.

PS Solar NOT efficient? How's he powering his house and cars using ONLY solar on his roof? He even gets some extra and sells it back to the grid. What's not to like?

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

Did u realize that EVERYONE is driving an electric car today? All gas-powered cars (that includes my Prius!) require an enormous amount of juice to refine their fuel...gasoline. What if we eliminated that 'middle-man' and just sent the electricity straight to a car to drive around 100 miles or so. 300 miles with li-ion. It's gonna happen. It has to. I don't see hydrogen powered-cars and it's nightmare boondoggle infrastructure any time soon.

Wind, yeah, I've got to think the anti-wind are not breathing the same air as you and I, otherwise they'd think it's a great thing to be able to see farther than 500 feet and be outdoors longer than 3 hours...

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

I'm not trying to argue that BEV's wouldn't be great, and I'm hoping you didn't take it that way. I'm just trying to speculate as to why car companies are jumping on FCV's, rather than BEV's. Frankly, I don't think we should be putting all our eggs in any one basket.

Wikipedia says most photovoltaic cells are only 12% efficient, with 20% cells commercially available and 30% prototypes being created. If you look at it from the perspective of "20% is better than nothing", it's good. If you look at it as "why put in 20% cells now when they'll be obsolete in a few years," they're not. Solar has a very promising future (unless we increase the cloud cover through global warming), but it's not there yet.

He's powering his house and cars by using very energy-efficient measures, and he says himself that he usually bikes. I was very impressed when I read his site some months ago, but he's REALLY into this stuff, and I don't expect most people to be able to do it.

More importantly, he lives in a house and it happens to be in California. The rest of the country doesn't get nearly as many bright sunny days, and for those of us living in places where we build up, instead of out, there isn't enough flat space to put the cells.

Power does not go to waste during off-peak periods. Nuke stations are used 24 hours a day, but smaller, "peaking plants" are only brought online when they're needed.

The anti-wind morons are just thinking, "Not in my back yard." People need to start thinking, "Yeah, I guess it's gotta be in my back yard." I'm not exactly happy with the Indian Point nuclear station being 36 miles away and not having the best safety record. But I do realize we need the power.

By the way, did he ever mention how much he paid for his solar array? I was trying to find it and couldn't.

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

11 grand. 3 years ago.

Yeah, CA does get it's fair share of sun! We here in the Dakotas have so much wind, we cuss it every day...we should be the wind generation leaders...eventually. I've read that CO wind companies now have wind-energy costs equal to and BELOW that of fossil-fuel plants. This is indeed great news.

There seems to be a finite amount of stuff in the ground to extract, refine and burn and THAT shortage has to happen for alternatives to look attractive. The almighty dollar...where we could be without it controlling all of us.

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

Just stumbled across this.

Chrysler says unfair yen rate favors Japanese rivals

queryvar="chrysler,says,unfair,yen,rate,favors,jap anese,rivals";Reuters / June 2, 2006 - 9:00 am


https://www.autonews.com/graphics/an_spacer.gifMACKINAC ISLAND, Mich. -- The U.S. government should confront Tokyo about the unfairly low value for the yen that gives Japanese carmakers an advantage of up to $3,000 per car sold in the United States, Chrysler group CEO Tom LaSorda said on Thursday.

LaSorda, speaking to a small group of reporters on the fringes of a meeting of Michigan business leaders and politicians, said "currency imbalances" would be a major topic for the leaders of the traditional Big 3 when they meet in Washington with U.S. President George W. Bush.

That meeting, originally scheduled for last month, has been postponed but will go forward soon, LaSorda said.

Joined by his counterparts at Ford Motor Co. and General Motors, LaSorda said the industry leaders plan to discuss health care reform and energy policy at that White House meeting.

"We need our government to understand how its actions can either encourage or set up roadblocks to American competitiveness," he said.

When asked, LaSorda said the level of the yen remained a bigger problem for Detroit automakers than the level of China's currency since China has not yet emerged as a major hub for vehicle exports.

"We think the federal government has a role here to say, we're not whining, we need equal treatment," LaSorda said, adding that the level of the yen can confer a cost advantage of about $3,000 on a $30,000 vehicle.

LaSorda noted that some 1.8 million vehicles are still imported to the U.S. market annually from Japan.

"It used to be much bigger but there are still power trains and parts being imported," he said. "The Japanese government continued to make threats that if (the yen) doesn't stay weak they'll have to intervene. It used to be them spending $400 billion over the last four to five years to intervene. Now they're threatening to intervene and the markets are reacting to their threat."

The dollar, which had been steadily weakening against the Japanese since mid-April, has rebounded from below 111 yen since mid-May. It was trading just above 112.50 yen on Thursday.

The U.S. currency has traded in a range between about 102 yen and 120 yen over the past two and a half years.

Peace,


Martin

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

Well, I'd have no trouble believing it.

In the 70's, we were told that people bought Japanese cars because they were cheaper.

In the 80's, we were told that people bought Japanese cars because they were higher quality.

Now, we're being told that people are buying the cars because they're artificially cheap? How about just admitting that people are buying them because you're not manufacturing anything we do want?

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

lol

how about chrysler , gm and ford just instead admit they make crappy cars, and stop making exuses why the japanese are -and have been -kicking their arses for decades.

99% of us , given the fair choice of equal cars, would buy AMERICAN cars manufactured right here in the good ol USA. We are loyal to our country , and like americans holding jobs.

Therefore, stands to reason that we buy japanese is because american cars are SUCH CRAP -we cant justify it, patriotic or not.

Yes, its embarrassing for the big 3.

solution : MAKE BETTER CARS!

:)

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

The other problem that the "Big 3" have is that they are completely absent in certain vehicle demographics. For instance, Ford has no subcompact car right not (the last one was the extremely cute Ford Aspire in 1997). They also don't have any stake in small, lightweight pickup trucks. Station wagons are extremely practical for people with kids, and are more safe/efficient than most SUVs, but the Big 3 doesn't do much in this category (Ford Focus station wagon is a rare example).

Personally, I haven't had too many bad experiences with Ford quality, but most GM vehicles I've driven have been absolute nightmares.

Re: VERY interesting Forbes article on hydrogen
 

Anyway, I'd have to agree with the sometimes shocking lack of entries in some "normal" catagories. Why is it that there are at least 3 or four models in the large truck from each of the big three, but only a single option to no options in Station wagon and smaller? Outside of the Vibe, Focus, and Calliber, there isn't much else out there.

As it is, with all these companies, there are only 3 Hybrid SUV choices, and no Minivan Hybrids.