Real Mileage Database
#51
03-07-2004, 06:58 PM
Xcel,
This is true. However, the only possible solution that I see is that a user may alternatively override all their data for their final LMPG average. This would be extremely innaccurate as far as the rest of the data, including Temperature, etc.
As I said before, if everyone adds all their data, there's no problem. There is little I can do until people agree to provide more accurate information.
This is true. However, the only possible solution that I see is that a user may alternatively override all their data for their final LMPG average. This would be extremely innaccurate as far as the rest of the data, including Temperature, etc.
As I said before, if everyone adds all their data, there's no problem. There is little I can do until people agree to provide more accurate information.
#52
03-07-2004, 07:45 PM
Hi Jason:
___I don’t know if you are capturing the root cause.
___I don’t think there is single entry that is inaccurate or misreported in the entire list but the conditions, averages, temperatures, and types of mileages shown are completely different. Do you think the 106 mpg reported by Mark’s UK based Insight isn’t an absolute high? I believe it is also under Imperial gallons. Do you think the 75 mpg Prius over a 35 mpg segment is representative of a lifetime mpg of the same Prius calculated or not? All you have to do is add these data points to the forms including absolute high’s, tanks, segments w/ miles driven, and a lmpg. Some of these will be left blank of course because some don’t or cannot keep track. If my lifetime mileage is increasing at a .4 mpg rate/week over the last 4 weeks, how can I represent the data in your database? Over the past 4 weeks, the average temperature I have driven in has climbed from maybe 20 degrees to maybe 25 degrees F … Traffic hasn’t really changed but my absolute high has increased, my lmpg has increased, and the average temperatures driven in has increased. There isn’t a vehicle’s information in the database that this has not or will not change in the near future as temperatures climb.
___Again, to make this information meaningful, you have to drill down to the conditions for this particular fuel economy and make sure it is represented with a description or condition that accurately reflects what is shown. Right now, the list is a mix of absolute’s, estimated and real lmpg’s, tank highs, and segment highs.
___Might I suggest that you look over at InsightCentral.net’s Lifetime Mileage Database. This database has been used by government and university studies as a representative sample of Insighter’s actual real world mpg’s. Even though it has not been kept completely up to date, it is a powerful tool to see what the Insight is capable of over a range of speeds driven when correlated properly. Your database cannot be used as such is all I am trying to point out. If you add the appropriate delineations, it can be.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___I don’t know if you are capturing the root cause.
___I don’t think there is single entry that is inaccurate or misreported in the entire list but the conditions, averages, temperatures, and types of mileages shown are completely different. Do you think the 106 mpg reported by Mark’s UK based Insight isn’t an absolute high? I believe it is also under Imperial gallons. Do you think the 75 mpg Prius over a 35 mpg segment is representative of a lifetime mpg of the same Prius calculated or not? All you have to do is add these data points to the forms including absolute high’s, tanks, segments w/ miles driven, and a lmpg. Some of these will be left blank of course because some don’t or cannot keep track. If my lifetime mileage is increasing at a .4 mpg rate/week over the last 4 weeks, how can I represent the data in your database? Over the past 4 weeks, the average temperature I have driven in has climbed from maybe 20 degrees to maybe 25 degrees F … Traffic hasn’t really changed but my absolute high has increased, my lmpg has increased, and the average temperatures driven in has increased. There isn’t a vehicle’s information in the database that this has not or will not change in the near future as temperatures climb.
___Again, to make this information meaningful, you have to drill down to the conditions for this particular fuel economy and make sure it is represented with a description or condition that accurately reflects what is shown. Right now, the list is a mix of absolute’s, estimated and real lmpg’s, tank highs, and segment highs.
___Might I suggest that you look over at InsightCentral.net’s Lifetime Mileage Database. This database has been used by government and university studies as a representative sample of Insighter’s actual real world mpg’s. Even though it has not been kept completely up to date, it is a powerful tool to see what the Insight is capable of over a range of speeds driven when correlated properly. Your database cannot be used as such is all I am trying to point out. If you add the appropriate delineations, it can be.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#53
03-07-2004, 08:09 PM
Xcel,
I find myself increasingly irritated because I am convinced it is the err of users and not my own that caused this "problem." First of all, there is an Imperial gallon conversion in the "Add Data" page. If Mark selected this unit, the figure is fine. Do I think that people are posting their highest mileage trips? Yes! But, unfortunately, this is the exact OPPOSITE of what I asked them to do. At the top of the Add page it specifically states that I do NOT want such figures. If everyone added all the data they had, the database would be 100% accurate. The fact that people are not following through is their own fault. There is no way I can make them follow the instructions.
Creating separate mileage inputs will not solve this problem. Insighters won't necessarily post their LMPG, but rather their highest trips (still). Prius owners won't be able to calculate their LMPG (at least, many do not know how if they only have avg mileage data). As far as tank highs, they can throw them out the window for all I care. We don't want them. We have no use for them. They're irrelevant and misleading.
The Insight mileage database uses LMPGs which are printed ON the Insight for easy viewing. You can't mess that up. You can lie about it, though, which is essentially what people are doing in our database by withholding lower mileage trips.
The only thing I may add is an approximate odometer reading, but still, this won't do any good if the rest of the data is bad.
As I said before, this is a CALCULATED MILEAGE database. The problem to solve is how to get people to input all of their data or at least an accurate sample, rather than try to climb the charts by inputting the hightest data they have.
I find myself increasingly irritated because I am convinced it is the err of users and not my own that caused this "problem." First of all, there is an Imperial gallon conversion in the "Add Data" page. If Mark selected this unit, the figure is fine. Do I think that people are posting their highest mileage trips? Yes! But, unfortunately, this is the exact OPPOSITE of what I asked them to do. At the top of the Add page it specifically states that I do NOT want such figures. If everyone added all the data they had, the database would be 100% accurate. The fact that people are not following through is their own fault. There is no way I can make them follow the instructions.
Creating separate mileage inputs will not solve this problem. Insighters won't necessarily post their LMPG, but rather their highest trips (still). Prius owners won't be able to calculate their LMPG (at least, many do not know how if they only have avg mileage data). As far as tank highs, they can throw them out the window for all I care. We don't want them. We have no use for them. They're irrelevant and misleading.
The Insight mileage database uses LMPGs which are printed ON the Insight for easy viewing. You can't mess that up. You can lie about it, though, which is essentially what people are doing in our database by withholding lower mileage trips.
The only thing I may add is an approximate odometer reading, but still, this won't do any good if the rest of the data is bad.
As I said before, this is a CALCULATED MILEAGE database. The problem to solve is how to get people to input all of their data or at least an accurate sample, rather than try to climb the charts by inputting the hightest data they have.
#54
03-07-2004, 08:21 PM
Hi Jason:
___I am not saying it is your fault … What I am saying is that if you include in your data form an Absolute High w/ miles driven, a Segment high with miles driven, a Tank high with miles driven, and a lmpg, you won’t see the mix of data that is currently posted. There is no rhyme or reason as to what is posted currently and it is unusable for an actual study of hybrid’s as a whole but it can be corrected before to many others enter their own data whether that be absolutes, segments, tanks, or lmpg’s under whatever conditions.
___As mentioned above, I am sure your own lmpg is climbing on a weekly basis, right? I know mine is. I can bet that every 04 Prius listed in the database is as well. Once they come back and edit the data, the updated info is not calculated into the current total averages if I understand your explanations properly? With that, the averages will only highlight a new owners fuel economy and that is most certainly not representative of what many of us are going to see over the next few years as we actually accumulate 10’s to 100’s of thousands of miles …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___I am not saying it is your fault … What I am saying is that if you include in your data form an Absolute High w/ miles driven, a Segment high with miles driven, a Tank high with miles driven, and a lmpg, you won’t see the mix of data that is currently posted. There is no rhyme or reason as to what is posted currently and it is unusable for an actual study of hybrid’s as a whole but it can be corrected before to many others enter their own data whether that be absolutes, segments, tanks, or lmpg’s under whatever conditions.
___As mentioned above, I am sure your own lmpg is climbing on a weekly basis, right? I know mine is. I can bet that every 04 Prius listed in the database is as well. Once they come back and edit the data, the updated info is not calculated into the current total averages if I understand your explanations properly? With that, the averages will only highlight a new owners fuel economy and that is most certainly not representative of what many of us are going to see over the next few years as we actually accumulate 10’s to 100’s of thousands of miles …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#55
03-07-2004, 08:28 PM
Xcel,
Perhaps it's my low tollerance for a free-for-all attitude about inputting data that set me off
I tend to think that if I make something like this available, everyone ought to stick to the rules. Since it's obvious that I need to spoon feed some people (wink, wink at the rebels), it looks like I'll be adding a dropdown to figure out exactly waht these people are thinking!
As far as "the updated info is not calculated into the current total averages if I understand your explanations properly," I'm not sure what you mean. Any updated information is as good as new. If I add a general odometer range field, I can create a line graph showing the increase in time. Of course, this will be wildly inaccurate until a couple YEARS roll around.
It looks like tomorrow I'll be doing some more modifications to the database. I just wish people would read and follow directions
Perhaps it's my low tollerance for a free-for-all attitude about inputting data that set me off
I tend to think that if I make something like this available, everyone ought to stick to the rules. Since it's obvious that I need to spoon feed some people (wink, wink at the rebels), it looks like I'll be adding a dropdown to figure out exactly waht these people are thinking!As far as "the updated info is not calculated into the current total averages if I understand your explanations properly," I'm not sure what you mean. Any updated information is as good as new. If I add a general odometer range field, I can create a line graph showing the increase in time. Of course, this will be wildly inaccurate until a couple YEARS roll around.
It looks like tomorrow I'll be doing some more modifications to the database. I just wish people would read and follow directions
#56
03-07-2004, 08:34 PM
i think i get what he was saying. the new data entries are averaged in w/ the rest. the average is what is displayed on the chart.
#57
03-07-2004, 08:40 PM
If he was commenting on the fact that the average mileages for the cars will be increasing with distance, I agree. Therefore, I may add an odometer reading.
Realize, though, that if I want some sort of aggregate statistic, that's what it will be. Otherwise, everything will be per-car.
Realize, though, that if I want some sort of aggregate statistic, that's what it will be. Otherwise, everything will be per-car.
#58
03-07-2004, 08:50 PM
If anyone happens to know a tiny bit of computer code, would you mind helping to ensure that these calculations are correct? It's too late for me right now and I need to be getting off, so I can't write it all down right now. Here's what I'm using for units conversions.
I tried plugging in a value in the database and seeing if the conversion worked, but again, right now I'm too tired.
I tried plugging in a value in the database and seeing if the conversion worked, but again, right now I'm too tired.
Code:
if (mileage_unit1 == 'km') {
$mileage = $mileage/1.609;
}
if ($mileage_unit2 == 'liter') {
$mileage = $mileage*3.785;
} elseif ($mileage_unit2 == 'imperialgallon') {
$mileage = $mileage*0.83267;
}
if ($distance_unit == 'km') {
$distance = $distance/1.609;
} else {
$distance = $distance;
}
#59
03-07-2004, 08:56 PM
Hi Jason:
___Two thumbs up
___This appears to me that as automobiles are modified, they are excluded. That can also lead to short term drivers entering in data that is being averaged whereas long terms drivers with real world upgraded data being excluded in that automobiles averages. This would not be representative of Prius, HCH, or Insighter’s as a whole as miles are accumulated imho.
___Make it simple and accurate or make it detailed and accurate but either way, make it representative
___And a bit OT but have you ever heard of Blue Planet Gasoline? It is available at some Holiday stations in Minnesota and upper Wisconsin. Not only is it low in Sulfur and Benzene, it makes all automobiles w/ CAT’s effluent cleaner. I tried to talk John1701a into placing a link about it on his web site a few months ago but I haven’t seen it yet. Anyway, take a look as this is the future of gasoline’s available here in the state and it’s a positive development for all of us as well …
___Good Luck with the database mods.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
It looks like tomorrow I'll be doing some more modifications to the database. I just wish people would read and follow directions
If the car has been modified for performance or mileage, it is excluded from the averages on the main page, and the name of the car reflects this status.
___Make it simple and accurate or make it detailed and accurate but either way, make it representative
___And a bit OT but have you ever heard of Blue Planet Gasoline? It is available at some Holiday stations in Minnesota and upper Wisconsin. Not only is it low in Sulfur and Benzene, it makes all automobiles w/ CAT’s effluent cleaner. I tried to talk John1701a into placing a link about it on his web site a few months ago but I haven’t seen it yet. Anyway, take a look as this is the future of gasoline’s available here in the state and it’s a positive development for all of us as well …
___Good Luck with the database mods.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#60
03-07-2004, 09:02 PM
Modified cars are, indeed, excluded. It is not representative if someone gets 500mpg on a modified Insight.
Never heard of BPG. Bookmarked. Tomorrow.
Mind checking those calculations? I think it is possible that I inversed (or didn't inverse) some of the units -- it could account for unusually high or low conversions. If I spot it, I can manually change the incorrect data and fix it for future conversions.
Never heard of BPG. Bookmarked. Tomorrow.
Mind checking those calculations? I think it is possible that I inversed (or didn't inverse) some of the units -- it could account for unusually high or low conversions. If I spot it, I can manually change the incorrect data and fix it for future conversions.
