Hey gang - great threads here - very insightful (seriously no pun intended - this is the civic thread). I have 2 issues I am struggling to improve, one made by Honda, one made by me.

2007 HCH, 210,000 miles. Battery has been shot for a few years. I finally bit the bullet and bought a Maxx Volt grid charger. Life was good - no problem on the installation of the grid charger. I hooked in the grid charger and got ready for the first charge (after a long day of installation hunched over in the back of my car - way too old for this!). Then I turned on the car to roll down the window for the extension cord (AGAINST many bold statements on Maxx Volts instructions) by accident and appears I reverse powered something on the charger and caused a bit of havoc in the IMA system.

Problem 1) My IMA fan initially didn't start at all on the first drive. I only noticed because of the IMA and check engine light, and the car wouldn't recharge the battery. Error code was P1448. Now the IMA fan runs at a pretty high speed all the time while the car is on. Higher speed than it ever ran in normal operations. I took some voltages at the IMA fan control (I have access to them at the Maxx Volts connections behind the head rest). Any troubleshooting thoughts? Fix/repair thoughts?

Problem 2) Obviously the battery is still dead. I found one of the Maxx Volt wires had an open - so fixing that before I try charging again. Not sure what caused that. But I did find in one of these threads the pin out for the BCM connector and took inter-cell (inter-stick) voltages. Interested in any thoughts as to how many bad cells, how bad, recovery thoughts? Voltage are below.

From a previous post by S Keith:
14P Orange connector layout:
1,2,3,X,X,4,5,6
7,8,9,X,11,12,13,14

6-14: 15.44
14-5: 15.40
5-13: 15.89
13-4: 15.57
4-12: 15.50
12-11: 15.74
7-1: 16.05
8-2: 15.34
2-9: 15.46
9-3: 15.30

Thanks for any help.

 

Your deltaV between min/max is 0.71V - this doesn't scream cell failure, but they are a mess. How long between those readings and the car being operated? The very good news is that all of them are well above 14.4V nominal. I recommend you let them sit overnight and check again.

P1448 was likely due to you powering the car on while the charger was driving the fan or at least connected to it. This is a common occurrence. Disconnecting the unit and cycling the ignition usually corrects the condition, but a 12V reset may be necessary to clear the code.

1) IMA fans don't normally run loud enough to be detected unless you're really listening. I wouldn't expect it to turn on at first drive. On both my prior HCH2, I could only hear the fan at the end of a drive in hot weather.

2) Someone else has had this exact problem with a MV charger on an HCH1 (same PWM fan controller). He hasn't resolved it yet.

After an initial charge of at least 8800mAh input (IIRC, MV is about 260mA - so 33 hours), I urge you to remove it and return it. Then get a Hybrid Automotive Prolong Reconditioning package. IMHO, MV units are sub par. They charge at lower currents, take longer to charge, induce more capacity loss, and miss half the equation.

 

Hi S Keith,
Thanks for the last reply. I never was able to fix the fan problem. OBTW I have an HCH 2 fan if anyone needs it. I think the fault is in the ECM. 1200 to replace - nuts.

I never did get the Max Volts system replaced but I wish I had surfed around here before buying it. Sub Par is an understatement. And they are not designed well t o discharge. They said they sell a discharge unit, but now they don't. Might have something to do with the male connector they used on the car and the reverse polarity device they installed to prevent shock (and prevent discharge!).
Anyway, I am going to set this thing up to discharge anyway and have a few easy questions.
1) Does the battery need cooling while discharging? I could wire in the pwm power from the mv charger while didscharging. It runs the fan even when off and just plugged in. But I'd rather not.
2) do you have a "method" I can copy. Rates, times, voltages at which to change rates? I recall you gave some pretty thorough advice in a post but I can't find it now. I bought some 9pin cpc connectors and will just hook in 1 or 2 light bulbs and a volt meter into the max volts connection.

Thanks!

 

Wow. It's been awhile.

Note that you need to charge first for 24 hours with the IPU cover on and the fan running. Do not attempt discharge unless the battery is in a full state of charge.

The "reverse polarity device" is called a $0.07 diode that prevents the flow of electricity through the harness in the discharge direction. It's real fancy. You absolutely, positively can't discharge through the MV harness.

1) no.
2) just pull the IPU cover and attach wires to where the grid charger harness is attached. Put 2X 110V incandescent bulbs in SERIES. 2X 200W bulbs will pull about 1.4A. 2X 100W bulbs in series will be about 0.7A. Use the master switch for on/off.

Don't be too aggressive. Do NOT discharge below 132V with anything over 40W (2 in series), and limit time under 132V to the sooner of 7 hours OR 66V.

1) grid charge for 24 hours
2) discharge @ > 100W to 132V, record time to 132V
3) switch bulbs to 40W and discharge for 7 hours OR 66V. If you hit 7 hours, record voltage. Note that the voltage will rebound. The 7 hours STARTS once you're back down to 132V.
4) repeat 1-3 3X times.

Deep discharging the HCH2 cells aggressively is a fantastic way to destroy them.

You should see the time in #2 increase with each cycle and the time or voltage in #3 decrease (less time to get to 66V or you are at lower voltages at 7 hours).

In #2, you should see a pretty big jump from the first to second discharge with a smaller jump in the 3rd discharge.

Good luck,

Steve

 

Yeh, Life got in the way! And the car is still doing ok. Hey are you still at a paultry 222k on your 06 HCH2? I have made it to 235k! on a '11 HCH2. You need to get that baby on the road!


Thanks for all the help here - clearly you have been around batteries a bit! Just what I needed.


So this is still my commuter car typically (I can get around that if absolutely need be). You said to do the charge/discharge cycle 3 times. Is there a necessary "rest' period in between or do you recommend rolling right through with limited/no stops. It would seem quite a bit more time efficient to just roll through the 3 cycles, but looks like a week of playing with the thing.


Regarding the MV connection, I think I'll just cut the diode out (I always put the cap back on the cover), unless you know of something in their charger design that requires it? I asked them about pulling it out, and got a smart $@@ answer. I may ask them again. I am a little sick of taking the back seat out :-)

 

I sold both HCH2 long ago. Love the cars, hated the batteries.

No waiting is needed. If taking the car offline for a week is impractical, you could do each of the 3 cycles over 3 consecutive weekends.

If you cut the diode out, the back flow of current from the battery into the charger could damage it. There may be ways around it, but I don't know how it's designed. If you use the master switch to cut the battery, attach the power, energize the charger, turn master switch on. Of course this still requires seat removal.

Alternatively, if you energize the charger before you make the connection, it may work. You would also need to disconnect the charger before you de-energize it. This ensures the charger is always at a higher voltage than the battery... maybe.

Not knowing the design of the charger, I can't say whether either option will work.

It's likely best for you to just make your own discharge harness. Get an extension cord, cut it in half, attach the female half to the battery, snake it into the cargo area. Use the male half to fabricate your discharger.

 

Hey Steve, Got the discharge rig made up and wired in. Clarifying question regarding the discharge procedure. You discussed the current expected with a 200W bulb and 100W bulb, but then in the following instructions mentioned switching bulbs to 40W at 132V.


Just to be clear, the intention is to use 2x40W bulbs in series after 132V?


It seemed from the discussion about 200W and 100W bulbs that I'd use 2x200W to 132, then 2x100W to 66V (given the fact they are in series, and the lowering voltages, I am guessing they are not using the stated wattage in our application).

 

Quoting myself from a couple posts above, this answered your question:

"> 100W" means anything 100W or higher.