09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
#21
11-08-2008, 08:01 PM
#22
11-09-2008, 04:11 AM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
I don't know how you guys could say a remote starter install from 4 months prior and 5,000 miles ago that could cause this part to fail. Two wires were cut and soldered back together? What would have caused the failure if nothing is connected to it? Nothing was shorted. Everything was checked five times!
Magnuson-Moss Act states that thy must prove that the
a. ipod adapter caused the problem
b. Wires that were cut 4 months prior and soldered back together cause the problem.
It's impossible that B was the cause.
Magnuson-Moss Act states that thy must prove that the
a. ipod adapter caused the problem
b. Wires that were cut 4 months prior and soldered back together cause the problem.
It's impossible that B was the cause.
Mybe the dealer just reset the warnings insted of looking deeper into the problem and over time it caused the bigger problem...
Anyway its not the dealer problem and an installation like probably voids the warrenty.
#23
11-09-2008, 05:32 AM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
Runutzzzzz,
I am posting this on both forums that you have contacted. What you have with the dealer is a case of perception and reality. The reality of the situation is that you may or may not have caused the problem with your car. The dealer can not prove that your actions caused the problem and your prior shop causing the codes to be set might not be a contributing factor to your current problem. You install of the I-Pod adapter SHOULD have not caused any additional problems either.
The perception of the situation is different though. Your dealer has on record your previous encounter with the service department at which time they cleared numerous codes caused by a botched attempt of a remote start installation. They know of the spliced together wiring harness from this attempt on a VERY complicated electrical system installed on a HYBRID vehicle.
The dealer did not “fix” anything on this prior visit; they just cleared the “codes” set by the botched attempt. This alone will not set you in the good graces of the dealer or Toyota with your current problem.
Add to this the fact that either you (or now a shop) went back into the dash and made some more modifications by adding an I-Pod adapter and the next thing that they know, your car does not work. I realize that YOU told them that it worked after the install but YOU can’t prove that. Again, the perception is that YOU installed something and the car ran fine before the install and now, it does not run.
Electrical systems do not always have a “cause” when they go out. What “caused” something as simple as a light bulb to blow? A thinner than normal tungsten wire in the core? Did you drop it? An electrical surge burn it out? A bad gas mixture when it was made?
Out of just those 4 scenarios, you can not tell what caused the light bulb to go out. The light will not burn and that is all that you can determine. Modern electronics in our cars, hybrid or not, are a LOT more complicated than that simple light bulb scenario and determining the cause of a failure is almost impossible. Both a rejection by the dealer or Toyota on your warranty claim can be taken to court and you might win. I can pretty much guarantee that it will cost you more for a lawyer to prove your case and you can still lose and wind up paying for the car and the lawyer.
This is one of those cases where perception has trumped reality and you will pay the price for it. If you can get a reduced price or have Toyota agree to a split in the price in which they agree to pay for part of the fix, take it. You will be a LOT better of in the long run. If they don’t agree to pay anything, face it like a man and learn from your experience.
I am posting this on both forums that you have contacted. What you have with the dealer is a case of perception and reality. The reality of the situation is that you may or may not have caused the problem with your car. The dealer can not prove that your actions caused the problem and your prior shop causing the codes to be set might not be a contributing factor to your current problem. You install of the I-Pod adapter SHOULD have not caused any additional problems either.
The perception of the situation is different though. Your dealer has on record your previous encounter with the service department at which time they cleared numerous codes caused by a botched attempt of a remote start installation. They know of the spliced together wiring harness from this attempt on a VERY complicated electrical system installed on a HYBRID vehicle.
The dealer did not “fix” anything on this prior visit; they just cleared the “codes” set by the botched attempt. This alone will not set you in the good graces of the dealer or Toyota with your current problem.
Add to this the fact that either you (or now a shop) went back into the dash and made some more modifications by adding an I-Pod adapter and the next thing that they know, your car does not work. I realize that YOU told them that it worked after the install but YOU can’t prove that. Again, the perception is that YOU installed something and the car ran fine before the install and now, it does not run.
Electrical systems do not always have a “cause” when they go out. What “caused” something as simple as a light bulb to blow? A thinner than normal tungsten wire in the core? Did you drop it? An electrical surge burn it out? A bad gas mixture when it was made?
Out of just those 4 scenarios, you can not tell what caused the light bulb to go out. The light will not burn and that is all that you can determine. Modern electronics in our cars, hybrid or not, are a LOT more complicated than that simple light bulb scenario and determining the cause of a failure is almost impossible. Both a rejection by the dealer or Toyota on your warranty claim can be taken to court and you might win. I can pretty much guarantee that it will cost you more for a lawyer to prove your case and you can still lose and wind up paying for the car and the lawyer.
This is one of those cases where perception has trumped reality and you will pay the price for it. If you can get a reduced price or have Toyota agree to a split in the price in which they agree to pay for part of the fix, take it. You will be a LOT better of in the long run. If they don’t agree to pay anything, face it like a man and learn from your experience.
#24
11-09-2008, 07:40 AM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
Runutzzzzz,
I am posting this on both forums that you have contacted. What you have with the dealer is a case of perception and reality. The reality of the situation is that you may or may not have caused the problem with your car. The dealer can not prove that your actions caused the problem and your prior shop causing the codes to be set might not be a contributing factor to your current problem. You install of the I-Pod adapter SHOULD have not caused any additional problems either.
The perception of the situation is different though. Your dealer has on record your previous encounter with the service department at which time they cleared numerous codes caused by a botched attempt of a remote start installation. They know of the spliced together wiring harness from this attempt on a VERY complicated electrical system installed on a HYBRID vehicle.
The dealer did not “fix” anything on this prior visit; they just cleared the “codes” set by the botched attempt. This alone will not set you in the good graces of the dealer or Toyota with your current problem.
Add to this the fact that either you (or now a shop) went back into the dash and made some more modifications by adding an I-Pod adapter and the next thing that they know, your car does not work. I realize that YOU told them that it worked after the install but YOU can’t prove that. Again, the perception is that YOU installed something and the car ran fine before the install and now, it does not run.
Electrical systems do not always have a “cause” when they go out. What “caused” something as simple as a light bulb to blow? A thinner than normal tungsten wire in the core? Did you drop it? An electrical surge burn it out? A bad gas mixture when it was made?
Out of just those 4 scenarios, you can not tell what caused the light bulb to go out. The light will not burn and that is all that you can determine. Modern electronics in our cars, hybrid or not, are a LOT more complicated than that simple light bulb scenario and determining the cause of a failure is almost impossible. Both a rejection by the dealer or Toyota on your warranty claim can be taken to court and you might win. I can pretty much guarantee that it will cost you more for a lawyer to prove your case and you can still lose and wind up paying for the car and the lawyer.
This is one of those cases where perception has trumped reality and you will pay the price for it. If you can get a reduced price or have Toyota agree to a split in the price in which they agree to pay for part of the fix, take it. You will be a LOT better of in the long run. If they don’t agree to pay anything, face it like a man and learn from your experience.
I am posting this on both forums that you have contacted. What you have with the dealer is a case of perception and reality. The reality of the situation is that you may or may not have caused the problem with your car. The dealer can not prove that your actions caused the problem and your prior shop causing the codes to be set might not be a contributing factor to your current problem. You install of the I-Pod adapter SHOULD have not caused any additional problems either.
The perception of the situation is different though. Your dealer has on record your previous encounter with the service department at which time they cleared numerous codes caused by a botched attempt of a remote start installation. They know of the spliced together wiring harness from this attempt on a VERY complicated electrical system installed on a HYBRID vehicle.
The dealer did not “fix” anything on this prior visit; they just cleared the “codes” set by the botched attempt. This alone will not set you in the good graces of the dealer or Toyota with your current problem.
Add to this the fact that either you (or now a shop) went back into the dash and made some more modifications by adding an I-Pod adapter and the next thing that they know, your car does not work. I realize that YOU told them that it worked after the install but YOU can’t prove that. Again, the perception is that YOU installed something and the car ran fine before the install and now, it does not run.
Electrical systems do not always have a “cause” when they go out. What “caused” something as simple as a light bulb to blow? A thinner than normal tungsten wire in the core? Did you drop it? An electrical surge burn it out? A bad gas mixture when it was made?
Out of just those 4 scenarios, you can not tell what caused the light bulb to go out. The light will not burn and that is all that you can determine. Modern electronics in our cars, hybrid or not, are a LOT more complicated than that simple light bulb scenario and determining the cause of a failure is almost impossible. Both a rejection by the dealer or Toyota on your warranty claim can be taken to court and you might win. I can pretty much guarantee that it will cost you more for a lawyer to prove your case and you can still lose and wind up paying for the car and the lawyer.
This is one of those cases where perception has trumped reality and you will pay the price for it. If you can get a reduced price or have Toyota agree to a split in the price in which they agree to pay for part of the fix, take it. You will be a LOT better of in the long run. If they don’t agree to pay anything, face it like a man and learn from your experience.
#25
11-09-2008, 08:12 AM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
From reading the three pages of ??? I wonder what is the purpose of these forums, I am sure, if the owner wanted to get chastised and ridiculed, over a possible $3500 mistake he would simply have remained married to his ex-wife and save the trouble of typing this out.
As for his original question it appears that only Mikieboyblue and a few others have offered any help at all.
From his posts it appears that 4-5 months an attempted auto start was started, and aborted and this required a visit to the dealer for a reseting of computer codes.
Now within the last days he assisted in an install of a Vias ipod unit and with the radio nof fully installed everything worked perfectley. The unit was then "buttoned up" and the radio installed at which point he noted that the vehicle would not start.
the installation of the vias unit has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicle failing to start unless one of 2 thing happened.
1. he failed to install to heater control wire connector into the correct position and somehow installed in into the aux port for the multi disc player option. this can be easily done and is the only open plug where it fits both connectors.
2. by the installation of the vias radio unit he managed to pull apart the wiring which was previously attached and suposely soldered.
I say this for the following reason
4-5 months ago he was attempting to install an auto start system which would require the wiring be modified to allow remote start and as a safety feature no start as part of the alarm feature.
now the owner is unable to start his vehicle after maybe moving his wires during the vias install.
when he says the wires were soldered it makes me think that it was cut and then resoldered together, however during this process these wires would have to be shortened there is no other way to do this then without adding a additional piece in the splice which I have never seen done.
As for the shop tech, I have little faith in them they simply know how to test and say yes or no and this is why they want a complete new harness, rather then diagnoise the actual problem.
I would strongly suggest that you make an appointment with a senior tech who understands electronics and go carefully through the wiring to see if a connection has come apart.
I would also check all the connectors on the inside firewall under the dash to verify that these connectors which control all of the major electronics are fully engaged and properly seated. If by chance during your install you pulled on the wiring and unseated a connector, this simple thing could have accounted for this fail to start.
Your problem is almost 100% directly related to the previous install which was aggreviated when you removed the radio for the vias install. the vias has nothing to do with the fail to start, they simply supply a loop in the radio system for the ipod.
I would be checking both the inside and outside fuse boxes for a blown fuse and all spliced wiring for electrical failure. You could use the electrical diagram supplied by Mikieboyblue to trace the circuits.
When you do a auto start, you add a circuit which is parallel to the factory and replicates the same function as the factory.
However during this process you cut factory wires to prevent the vehicle from being started unless all of the requirements are met, such as foot on brake, hood closed, shifter in park and so on.
It is in these wires where I think your problem lies and although restored 4-5 months ago might have been disturbed as being too short and tugged on during the install of the Vias unit.
I wonder if your module is even damaged or did the tech simply swap the module and with the car not starting decide to replace the entire harness due to the connections being cut and spliced together.
A lot of skilled persons can easily verify that the wiring is intact, really you can do it yourself as all the wires are colour coded. and normally you would not cut more then 2-3 wires and splice onto an additional 10 other wires for a full alarm, auto start install.
this vehicle is also prewired for auto start, and a factory alarm, which will completely mechanically disable the vehicles ability to start, if these connectors have come loose then your car will not start and appear as dead. These connectors are also in the same location on this electrical bar you can see behind the radio.
Before spending $3500 with the dealer I would be visually going over your electrical harnesses and trying to find a good service tech giving them the full history on the botched auto start install.
I do not know if there are any members near you that could assist in the visual differences of your present electrical and their factory electrical, wiring. If you are able to find such a kind member then your problem will be easily visible.
As for the testing of the module, I would go to an online auto wrecked and purchase a module from a wrecked camry, I am sure over the last 3 years in which these vehicles have been produced there are lots of these modules around.
Good luck and try not to despair
tim
As for his original question it appears that only Mikieboyblue and a few others have offered any help at all.
From his posts it appears that 4-5 months an attempted auto start was started, and aborted and this required a visit to the dealer for a reseting of computer codes.
Now within the last days he assisted in an install of a Vias ipod unit and with the radio nof fully installed everything worked perfectley. The unit was then "buttoned up" and the radio installed at which point he noted that the vehicle would not start.
the installation of the vias unit has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicle failing to start unless one of 2 thing happened.
1. he failed to install to heater control wire connector into the correct position and somehow installed in into the aux port for the multi disc player option. this can be easily done and is the only open plug where it fits both connectors.
2. by the installation of the vias radio unit he managed to pull apart the wiring which was previously attached and suposely soldered.
I say this for the following reason
4-5 months ago he was attempting to install an auto start system which would require the wiring be modified to allow remote start and as a safety feature no start as part of the alarm feature.
now the owner is unable to start his vehicle after maybe moving his wires during the vias install.
when he says the wires were soldered it makes me think that it was cut and then resoldered together, however during this process these wires would have to be shortened there is no other way to do this then without adding a additional piece in the splice which I have never seen done.
As for the shop tech, I have little faith in them they simply know how to test and say yes or no and this is why they want a complete new harness, rather then diagnoise the actual problem.
I would strongly suggest that you make an appointment with a senior tech who understands electronics and go carefully through the wiring to see if a connection has come apart.
I would also check all the connectors on the inside firewall under the dash to verify that these connectors which control all of the major electronics are fully engaged and properly seated. If by chance during your install you pulled on the wiring and unseated a connector, this simple thing could have accounted for this fail to start.
Your problem is almost 100% directly related to the previous install which was aggreviated when you removed the radio for the vias install. the vias has nothing to do with the fail to start, they simply supply a loop in the radio system for the ipod.
I would be checking both the inside and outside fuse boxes for a blown fuse and all spliced wiring for electrical failure. You could use the electrical diagram supplied by Mikieboyblue to trace the circuits.
When you do a auto start, you add a circuit which is parallel to the factory and replicates the same function as the factory.
However during this process you cut factory wires to prevent the vehicle from being started unless all of the requirements are met, such as foot on brake, hood closed, shifter in park and so on.
It is in these wires where I think your problem lies and although restored 4-5 months ago might have been disturbed as being too short and tugged on during the install of the Vias unit.
I wonder if your module is even damaged or did the tech simply swap the module and with the car not starting decide to replace the entire harness due to the connections being cut and spliced together.
A lot of skilled persons can easily verify that the wiring is intact, really you can do it yourself as all the wires are colour coded. and normally you would not cut more then 2-3 wires and splice onto an additional 10 other wires for a full alarm, auto start install.
this vehicle is also prewired for auto start, and a factory alarm, which will completely mechanically disable the vehicles ability to start, if these connectors have come loose then your car will not start and appear as dead. These connectors are also in the same location on this electrical bar you can see behind the radio.
Before spending $3500 with the dealer I would be visually going over your electrical harnesses and trying to find a good service tech giving them the full history on the botched auto start install.
I do not know if there are any members near you that could assist in the visual differences of your present electrical and their factory electrical, wiring. If you are able to find such a kind member then your problem will be easily visible.
As for the testing of the module, I would go to an online auto wrecked and purchase a module from a wrecked camry, I am sure over the last 3 years in which these vehicles have been produced there are lots of these modules around.
Good luck and try not to despair
tim
#26
11-09-2008, 06:16 PM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
Fast forward 4 1/2 months and 5000 miles or so later... I install the VAIS Tech I-Pod adapter and turn the car on to test it. Works great everything is o.k. Turn the car off to clean up and then I turned the car back on and the car wouldn't do anything! I had the car towed to the dealership Monday, on Thursday eveing they finally figured out that a module that is back behind the radio is "fried."
There you go, your installation fried it now pay like a big boy and stop whining, learn to leave you hands off if don't understand the system. Take responsibility for your actions!
There you go, your installation fried it now pay like a big boy and stop whining, learn to leave you hands off if don't understand the system. Take responsibility for your actions!
#27
11-09-2008, 06:31 PM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
how did an installation that was done 4 months ago have anything to do with the failure? Dealership even states the cannot tell me what happened and it might have been a freak accident. Read: They don't know what cause it. They said connections were good and soldered.
#28
11-09-2008, 06:57 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid Hudson Valley, New York
Posts: 1,389
#29
11-09-2008, 07:10 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid Hudson Valley, New York
Posts: 1,389
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
From reading the three pages of ??? I wonder what is the purpose of these forums, I am sure, if the owner wanted to get chastised and ridiculed, over a possible $3500 mistake he would simply have remained married to his ex-wife and save the trouble of typing this out.
As for his original question it appears that only Mikieboyblue and a few others have offered any help at all.
From his posts it appears that 4-5 months an attempted auto start was started, and aborted and this required a visit to the dealer for a reseting of computer codes.
Now within the last days he assisted in an install of a Vias ipod unit and with the radio nof fully installed everything worked perfectley. The unit was then "buttoned up" and the radio installed at which point he noted that the vehicle would not start.
the installation of the vias unit has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicle failing to start unless one of 2 thing happened.
1. he failed to install to heater control wire connector into the correct position and somehow installed in into the aux port for the multi disc player option. this can be easily done and is the only open plug where it fits both connectors.
2. by the installation of the vias radio unit he managed to pull apart the wiring which was previously attached and suposely soldered.
I say this for the following reason
4-5 months ago he was attempting to install an auto start system which would require the wiring be modified to allow remote start and as a safety feature no start as part of the alarm feature.
now the owner is unable to start his vehicle after maybe moving his wires during the vias install.
when he says the wires were soldered it makes me think that it was cut and then resoldered together, however during this process these wires would have to be shortened there is no other way to do this then without adding a additional piece in the splice which I have never seen done.
As for the shop tech, I have little faith in them they simply know how to test and say yes or no and this is why they want a complete new harness, rather then diagnoise the actual problem.
I would strongly suggest that you make an appointment with a senior tech who understands electronics and go carefully through the wiring to see if a connection has come apart.
I would also check all the connectors on the inside firewall under the dash to verify that these connectors which control all of the major electronics are fully engaged and properly seated. If by chance during your install you pulled on the wiring and unseated a connector, this simple thing could have accounted for this fail to start.
Your problem is almost 100% directly related to the previous install which was aggreviated when you removed the radio for the vias install. the vias has nothing to do with the fail to start, they simply supply a loop in the radio system for the ipod.
I would be checking both the inside and outside fuse boxes for a blown fuse and all spliced wiring for electrical failure. You could use the electrical diagram supplied by Mikieboyblue to trace the circuits.
When you do a auto start, you add a circuit which is parallel to the factory and replicates the same function as the factory.
However during this process you cut factory wires to prevent the vehicle from being started unless all of the requirements are met, such as foot on brake, hood closed, shifter in park and so on.
It is in these wires where I think your problem lies and although restored 4-5 months ago might have been disturbed as being too short and tugged on during the install of the Vias unit.
I wonder if your module is even damaged or did the tech simply swap the module and with the car not starting decide to replace the entire harness due to the connections being cut and spliced together.
A lot of skilled persons can easily verify that the wiring is intact, really you can do it yourself as all the wires are colour coded. and normally you would not cut more then 2-3 wires and splice onto an additional 10 other wires for a full alarm, auto start install.
this vehicle is also prewired for auto start, and a factory alarm, which will completely mechanically disable the vehicles ability to start, if these connectors have come loose then your car will not start and appear as dead. These connectors are also in the same location on this electrical bar you can see behind the radio.
Before spending $3500 with the dealer I would be visually going over your electrical harnesses and trying to find a good service tech giving them the full history on the botched auto start install.
I do not know if there are any members near you that could assist in the visual differences of your present electrical and their factory electrical, wiring. If you are able to find such a kind member then your problem will be easily visible.
As for the testing of the module, I would go to an online auto wrecked and purchase a module from a wrecked camry, I am sure over the last 3 years in which these vehicles have been produced there are lots of these modules around.
Good luck and try not to despair
tim
As for his original question it appears that only Mikieboyblue and a few others have offered any help at all.
From his posts it appears that 4-5 months an attempted auto start was started, and aborted and this required a visit to the dealer for a reseting of computer codes.
Now within the last days he assisted in an install of a Vias ipod unit and with the radio nof fully installed everything worked perfectley. The unit was then "buttoned up" and the radio installed at which point he noted that the vehicle would not start.
the installation of the vias unit has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicle failing to start unless one of 2 thing happened.
1. he failed to install to heater control wire connector into the correct position and somehow installed in into the aux port for the multi disc player option. this can be easily done and is the only open plug where it fits both connectors.
2. by the installation of the vias radio unit he managed to pull apart the wiring which was previously attached and suposely soldered.
I say this for the following reason
4-5 months ago he was attempting to install an auto start system which would require the wiring be modified to allow remote start and as a safety feature no start as part of the alarm feature.
now the owner is unable to start his vehicle after maybe moving his wires during the vias install.
when he says the wires were soldered it makes me think that it was cut and then resoldered together, however during this process these wires would have to be shortened there is no other way to do this then without adding a additional piece in the splice which I have never seen done.
As for the shop tech, I have little faith in them they simply know how to test and say yes or no and this is why they want a complete new harness, rather then diagnoise the actual problem.
I would strongly suggest that you make an appointment with a senior tech who understands electronics and go carefully through the wiring to see if a connection has come apart.
I would also check all the connectors on the inside firewall under the dash to verify that these connectors which control all of the major electronics are fully engaged and properly seated. If by chance during your install you pulled on the wiring and unseated a connector, this simple thing could have accounted for this fail to start.
Your problem is almost 100% directly related to the previous install which was aggreviated when you removed the radio for the vias install. the vias has nothing to do with the fail to start, they simply supply a loop in the radio system for the ipod.
I would be checking both the inside and outside fuse boxes for a blown fuse and all spliced wiring for electrical failure. You could use the electrical diagram supplied by Mikieboyblue to trace the circuits.
When you do a auto start, you add a circuit which is parallel to the factory and replicates the same function as the factory.
However during this process you cut factory wires to prevent the vehicle from being started unless all of the requirements are met, such as foot on brake, hood closed, shifter in park and so on.
It is in these wires where I think your problem lies and although restored 4-5 months ago might have been disturbed as being too short and tugged on during the install of the Vias unit.
I wonder if your module is even damaged or did the tech simply swap the module and with the car not starting decide to replace the entire harness due to the connections being cut and spliced together.
A lot of skilled persons can easily verify that the wiring is intact, really you can do it yourself as all the wires are colour coded. and normally you would not cut more then 2-3 wires and splice onto an additional 10 other wires for a full alarm, auto start install.
this vehicle is also prewired for auto start, and a factory alarm, which will completely mechanically disable the vehicles ability to start, if these connectors have come loose then your car will not start and appear as dead. These connectors are also in the same location on this electrical bar you can see behind the radio.
Before spending $3500 with the dealer I would be visually going over your electrical harnesses and trying to find a good service tech giving them the full history on the botched auto start install.
I do not know if there are any members near you that could assist in the visual differences of your present electrical and their factory electrical, wiring. If you are able to find such a kind member then your problem will be easily visible.
As for the testing of the module, I would go to an online auto wrecked and purchase a module from a wrecked camry, I am sure over the last 3 years in which these vehicles have been produced there are lots of these modules around.
Good luck and try not to despair
tim
#30
11-10-2008, 04:51 AM
Re: 09 TCH in the shop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 Repair!
From reading the three pages of ??? I wonder what is the purpose of these forums, I am sure, if the owner wanted to get chastised and ridiculed, over a possible $3500 mistake he would simply have remained married to his ex-wife and save the trouble of typing this out.
tim
tim
People gave their opinion as asked and the OP seems annoyed that most people agreed with the dealer's view.
If the post had been "I don't want to hear people's opinions about the dealer's position but would appreciate it if you can provide me with technical suggestions as to how I might proceed" then would (should) be a very different set of responses.
