Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Just had the TCH serviced for 7,500 miles today. I had a small 'beef' with them about my last service.. I had specifically requested 36psi in the tires.

A couple days later in the AM, I decided to check them prior to a trip.
2 were at 31.5 , one was 32 and one was 33. AND two valve stem caps were missing.

This time, I again specified 36 psi in the tires and the service manager argued with me that the recommended presssure is 32 psi. He showed me the door sticker and wasn't hearing my request.. Finally, I said put them at 36.

Just wondering why the push-back on this.. It has been clearly documented and mentioned in various threads that this can and does increase fuel economy and some will even say, control and stabilty.

Regarding the missing caps.. They said they would have to ORDER them..

HUH?
:confused:

Oh well. I couldn't be happier with my FE or the TCH after 8,350 miles and just wondering what others may have experienced when asking for certain tire pressures.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

They probably need to cover their azzes on the legal front.

In this day and age I can see if they get into an accident then blame
the dealership for letting them overfill the tires and not properly explaining
the "risks" etc etc and then blaming the accident on the tires.

You get the point.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

The dealership has to follow Toyota's recommendations, not Green Hybrid's. It may seem perfectly fine to you, and I just upped the pressure in my tires to 40 psi. But they don't want to make judgements as to what is a reasonable deviation from Toyota's specs and what isn't.

What do they do if people come in and say less oil will get me better fuel efficiency? Do they leave out a quart because someone asks them to? I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to set the car to Toyota's specs. It's easy enough to go to the gas station and put a little more air in yourself.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Agree with the posts above that Toyota needs to cover their own rears.

The "legal" way for you to avoid this is to tell them when you drop off the car "please do not check the tire pressure, they are set the way I want". They will note your request on your work order, and thus you have waived any liability regarding the tires because you specifically told them not to check it. But you definitely can't tell them to set the pressure at a non-factory specified pressure and expect them to comply.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

If the dealer makes note of a deviation from factory spec's., it could make a difference when it comes to your warranty being honored. Beyond that, my dealer has an Extra Mile Option Package that includes an Extended Life Tire Program. It's a "no charge" benefit that keeps you coming in to have your tires rotated at the dealer every 5,000 miles along with your oil change. If you're faithful to this extent, the dealer will replace your tires if they wear out before 100,000 miles.

I'm sure that if I deviated from the recommended 32 psi that the dealer wouldn't replace my worn tires. I wouldn't mind airing up to 36 psi to get the better mileage, but for me, I'd rather have the warranty benefits.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Forget the dealer. Get a $29.95 portable compressor for your trunk and keep your tires at the level you want. That's what I did. Dealer deflates them to 32 PSI at oil change, I just re-fill them back to 50 the next morning.

No worries !!! :D

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

What lars-ss said. It's not reasonable to ask a dealer, who has a potential liability, to set the tires to *your* specs over factory specs.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

After the FORD Firestone fiasco I can't blame any dealer for refusing to do anything other than the sticker on tire pressure. I honestly don't trust the dealer or any tech with that stuff. I check my tires every 2-3 weeks and adjust as necessary. I run 36PSI all around, better to be a few over than under.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Actually $10 at Walmart. And I considering dealers and oil change places are often checking warm tires they are probably actually lowering your PSI below spec. I check them first thing in the AM when I know car has sat over night.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Good Point.. I don't really feel badly about them, just wondering. I have my own compressor so it's easily done at home and I have a digital tire guage which makes it accurate to the tenth of a pound.
Thanks for your input.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

50 PSI WOW :omg:

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

You'd be surpirsed at how non-intrusive the extra PSI feels. It's not noticable to me at all, and my kids don't notice either. We usually stay on pretty good roads, so we don't have a lot of potholes or "jarring" incidents which would feel worse with the higher PSI.

All I expect to see is higher MPG. So far this tank is 41.4 after 370 miles, and my overall average for the car is about 36.7 up to now. I also have benefitted from cooler weather lately and have not had to run the A/C as much, which has helped the MPG too.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

lars-ss.. How is it that you feel comfortable with 50psi when the manufacturers maximum pressure on my Michelin tires is 44 psi?.. Isn't this a risk to you and your family as pressure expands after driving?.. Just curious.. To each his own, however, I felt that my 36 was going far enough.
Thanks

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

First, I've got 51 PSI on my tires listed as the max PSI.

My use of overinflation is a personal decision, based on advice from the World's Greatest Hypermiler and based on experience of 24,000 miles in my 2004 HCH at overinflation on those tires also. ( I also overinflate my Segway tires by the way!)

Anyone who overinflates should do their homework and evaluate the pros and cons themselves. To me, the cons are negligible, and increased risk of danger is not involved in that 95% of my driving is done at 45 MPH and below.

...:D

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

tars get hot pressure goes up, may actually be looking at 53-54 in real life. MHO is it must ride like a lumber wagon lol

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Actually, it rides fine. It soaked up the extra pressure like a champ. The 50 PSI had less of an effect on the ride than did running high PSI on my 2004 HCH.
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Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Yes. They do leave out the oil. Because, yes it does in some cases. And if you are never driving your engine hard it doesn't realy hurt it.

I know of someone that regularly gets his oil changed at the dealer. He supplies is own oil and ask for the empty bottles plus remainder of the last bottle back to ensure they put in the right amount.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

I run 60psi in my tires. You have more chance of a blowout at 5psi under recomended pressure vs the 11psi over I'm running.

I saw an interview of Pat Goss(I think thats his name. The mechanic on motorweek. He spouted the same FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) about over inflation of tires. The problem is that he was wrong. I don't say this because I think I know better than him. I say this because I have personaly talked to engineers that design these tires.

His information was correct 40 years ago, but tire technology has changed since then.

There are drawbacks to overinflation, but a lot of the negatives that get mentioned aren't true.

Harsh ride is one of the valid complaints. If you have a bumpy road, you are going to feel it if you go up to high. On good roads the car handles well and drives smoth. If you increase up a few lbs at a time you will find where you are comfortable and can stay there and get the car tuned to your preferences.

The tire will not blow just because it says "max COLD sidwall pressure" The blow out pressure is a tad higher, and by that I mean over 3digits.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Would you please post all the information about the location of your car as well as a complete description of the car so that I may stay as far away from your rolling time bomb as possible?

The tire manufactures place maximum pressures on the side walls for a reason, you exceeding it is just plain dumb.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

This may be true. But if he has engine trouble under warranty it would not shock me if he has trouble getting it repaired if he kept the oil level below the manufacturer's recommendation. I'm guessing the dealership makes note of the amount of oil used, either on his service slip and/or in their system. Of course I have no idea how much less he's using.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Funny thing on this tread: all the concern is over blowouts. I would think the bigger concern of higher pressure is the reduced tire contact with the road. Obviously, that's the goal of inflating tires to such a high degree: less road contact means less resistance, which results to better gas milage. I would love to see actual studies relating stopping/cornering/control of a car equipped with 'recommended' pressure vs. higher pressure tires. I'm not asking for "it feels fine to me." I'm asking for "X% over pressure results in Y% longer braking distance."

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Funny thing on this tread: all the concern is over blowouts.

I agree with your assessment. The reason I have commented on this in the past is because many inexperienced (young?) drivers read these comments about 40+ psig pressures on their TCH and think it's the next good thing to do as another high FE tip. I don't have a problem with something up to say 40 psig, but one should consider their driving conditions and realize you won't have the same handling and stopping abilities.

Some of the TCH'ers are in flat, dry level country. I live in the hills where it rains and there are sharp curves. There is no way I want to drive around on a set of stiff tires in my conditions.

If I only commuted in Arizona and never went over 60, then 45 may be OK.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

The following advice is according to Barry Smith, who recommends running your tires at 3-5 PSI above the vehicle manufacturer's specification (taking into account increased ride harshness for normal drivers):

About Barry Smith:

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

The following advice is according to Barry Smith, who recommends running your tires at 3-5 PSI above the vehicle manufacturer's specification

I absolutely agree with this. Let's see; 3 to 5 psig would be 35 to 37 psig (I run at 36 psig_ I drive a lot of 70 mph on concrete roads, long distances). Even Toyota recommends 35 for high temperature driving (high speeds, high friction roads like grooved concrete or Arizona asphalt).

I'm still looking for the "expert" to say that driving on a set of tires with a manufacturers design of 32 psig is safe at 45+ psig or even 40 psig. I'm not interested in the number of people still alive that can say they run at that pressure all the time.

BTY, the 32 psig is not there for the strength of the tire (most are good for above 50), but it's there to give the "correct" area of contact necessary to safely drive the specific car based on the total weight and the weight distribution of that specific car.

It's absolutely pouring outside now. Yes pumped "tight" tires will cut through that rain on the road pushing it out of the way, up to the point that the very small contact patch starts floating. Then I have very little contact patch left to try and grab that asphalt. The only thing that might save me if I'm going slow enough is the VSC may be able to straighten me out as the car slows. But even it won't work until I get a grip. Just hope I slow down enough to "grab" traction before I slide across the median in front of some semi.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Thanks, Steve, for the Barry Smith quote. The question I have for him is why do manufacturer's recommend a "low" tire pressure if all that he says is true. My assumption (and yes, I know what "assume" means) was that the tire and car manufacturers collaborate on the issue to determine the best tire and tire pressure for a particular car model. Could it be that 32 psi is a cold "starting" pressure and that with road use and heat the tire will eventually end up at 35-37psi anyway? If the tire is already inflated to 35-37 psi then the road usage would put the effective pressure at 38-40 psi.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

...more inflation pressure improves the fuel economy, wet traction, snow traction, tire durability, tire wear, steering response, but increases ride harshness.

I'm having a hard time leaving some of these comments alone. I have this fear of someone like my daughter who perhaps is just graduating from college and are purchasing their first car reading this stuff and saying "what a great idea" without considering or knowing the consequences.

What I really wonder about is what Bill Smith has to say about 10 to 15 psig over design. That seems to be the point of our disagreements.

To say "more traction" is very misleading.

More traction can mean many things. For trucks off road, less air is better traction, for dragsters less air means better grip. I don't know what Nascar runs (as they go high speed and around curves) or even Formula 1 drivers (curves both two directions)
but I agree up to a point more air will make the tire bite into snow and water better (note that dry traction is not one of the items mentioned).


If someone really drove 20 mph in the rain, more air probably would be safe, as the speed increases the harder tires would cut through the water rather than "flatten" out and float. But once the tire floats (and they all eventually will if you're driving normal speeds in the rain), you have less contact patch trying to grab back that grip with highter pressure tires.

I believe tires designed for rain ran at higher pressures would be a better option for those of you in the normally dryer, hot regions. At least then at 50 psig you would have a tire that could over compensate for less compact patch with an improved tread design to chanel water away when it started to rain.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Gents,

I'm pleased that people are doing research and all about this subject. Knowledge is good.

But there is another kind of knowledge too - it's called "personal experience." How many of us have had blowouts? Many of us have had at least one blowout. And you know the VAST majority of blowouts are caused by UNDERINFLATION, right? Google the subject. My last blowout was because of underinflation.

Tires today are a LOT better than they were 20 years ago. Other than the Ford Exploder issue of a few years ago, tires have come a long way.

OK, with the risk of blowouts MORE LIKELY with underinflation (fact) then the logical conclusion is that overinflation would lead to FEWER blowouts. That's point one.

Point two is that since tires are better now, we as owners of tires can "worry less" about tire problems.

Point three is that we know that overinflation leads to higher MPG, because of less rubber on the road and thus less rolling resistance.

Here's where personal knowledge comes into play: I've got 30,000 miles on two different hybrids using "overinflation" and I have so far ZERO negative issues - no odd wear, no loss of traction, no blowouts, no problems.

Wayne Gerdes, considered the World's Greatest Hypermiler (or if not, at least he is in the top three) has logged many many thousands of miles on his cars using overinflation and has reported no negative issues. He's actually the person who convinced me that overinflation is OK.

My situation is different that some of you, as I have stated. About 95% of my miles are on DRY city streets, at speeds under 45 mph. I don't need to worry about lost traction. I really have convinced myself that blowout is not a danger. From the miles I logged thus far, I have seen no uneven wear or tire damage.

So each person should make their own decision on tire inflation. My contention and my personal experience tells me that it is a good idea for me. YMMV....
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Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

I've dialed up the voltage in my house from the recommended 120v to 132v. This modest gain of 10% makes my lights brighter, my stereo louder, and my computer faster. Known as the father of the 'Hypervolters' I have found the inconvenience of replacing light bulbs every week and the smell of melting plastic to be of little consequence compared to the benefits of more light, more sound, and more computer cycles.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Danger... Danger, Will Robinson! High voltage can lead to dangerous levels of comedic overtones.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

lars-ss:

Your logic on point one is faulty. The logical conclusion is that PROPER inflation would lead to FEWER blowouts. You can't conclude anything about overinflation with the information you've given.

Like you, I've got lots of personal knowledge. However, I don't believe that one should generalize too much based on it. For instance, in my youth, I never had any accidents drinking and driving. Should I conclude that it is safe to do so? I would really like a little more evidence than your personal experience before I decide that to take the risk of overinflating my tires.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Wimp. I took the electrical leads coming in from the power company, connected one lead to both hots and replaced the neutral with the other lead, so everything is running 220. Now that's hypervolting.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

from 32-36 you will not notice any FE difference. At least nothing worth mentioning.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

I love it. No guts, no glory. And you should see what the vacuum does to the carpet!

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Sucked the padding right out from under the carpet.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

The effect of tires heating up is taken into account when deciding the pressures, which is exactly why they are specificed as cold pressure. When the manuals however suggest a +5 PSI boost for higher speed driving however, this means a +5 COLD boost.

What this suggests however is that there is a range of pressures where traction etc. are more or less the same, and that manufacturers normally opt toward the lower end of this spectrum in order to create a softer ride, at the expense of greater rolling resistance. I know that one of the main contributing factors to the ford/firestone blowouts was that Ford specififed an unusually low spec. pressure in order to produce a softer ride.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

Just as an FYI....From ToyotaiGuide:

When driving under the above vehicle conditions (Tire size and cold tire inflation pressure) at sustained high speeds above 160 km/h (100 mph), in countries where such speeds are permitted by law, inflate the front and rear tires to 240 kPa (2.4 kgf/cm 2 or bar, 35 psi) provided that it does not exceed the maximum cold tire inflation pressure molded on the tire sidewall.

So they say only a 3 PSI increase for high speed... and much higher than we can drive legaly in the US. FWIW, I just put mine at 37 cold....we'll see if i get any improvement in FE, but my belief is that low pressures (under 30) will hurt FE, and tire wear. Over 40 MIGHT help, but I am not willing to go that high...mostly due to MY percption that it reduces the contact patch, and increases impact harshness more than I prefer.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

I know that one of the main contributing factors to the ford/firestone blowouts was that Ford specififed an unusually low spec. pressure in order to produce a softer ride.

I have driven several explorers and am currently in a 2001 for a company vehicle. I looked into this a lot! It's extreemly easy to allow tires to go to underinflation. That will cause blowouts. However with the Explorer, Firestone and Ford finally agreed on 30-32 MAX. That was a compromise as one of them (I can't remember which) wanted it lower. The EXPLORER has absolutely "twichy" handling with pressures over 34 psig. I would call it dangerous for any interstate speed driving. Every time I take it in for service at a non-Ford service they pump up the tires to 36 and I have to let it out.

I will say that I owwned 3 Explorers in the 90's and traded my last one because of the stiff ride. This particular 2001 has an extreemly stiff "unforgiving" suspension and with high tire pressures does not like sudden moves (or corrective actions). I

Running at lower pressures means I have to check tires more often because losing 3-4# means I am then underinflated. VERY small margin of safety.

Breing as the TCH is a car and less prone to roll-overs, this particular aspect of high pressure tires does not concern me.

Re: Dealer push-back on requested Tire Pressure.
 

I know the manufacturers went through some radical changes for the sake of increasing FE across their fleet for EPA averages. If they were willing to change the grade of oil across their fleet for a 0.1mpg corporate increase then why would they have not increased the air pressures in the tires for the same reason? I'm sure they studied it under classroom conditions. I just can't imagine them not wanting a 10% increase if air is all it cost them.

I know, comfort you say. I don't believe they would have let that stop them, especially knowing that the consumer would simply let some air out of the tires as they wouldyhave a larger "range of safety" posted on your door post had they done that.

I can't see any difference in 32 to 36 psig and I'm not going above that.