Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
#11
06-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
it is not a necessity but the sensible option since I was in the market for a luxury SUV. the lexus LX570 gets 12mpg, the range - 12mpg, porsche cayenne -12mpg, regular escalade-12mpg, MB GL gas and bluetec all gets less mileage than the escalade hybrid. my honda pilot 4wd=13mpg(true story).
#12
06-08-2011, 04:34 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
haroldo, this is interesting coming from you. personally, i have to command you for "bravery" and raising this question - HERE!.
i have quite a few notches on your "obsession" list. well, here's the thing. i am paid for driving. i do a lot of business mileage and am paid at IRS rate for every mile. let me spit 3 times to make sure i do not jinx this. hence, my gas, my wife's gas and my Silverado gas are all covered and we have nice leftover.
so why do I concern about mpg? well with me, it is a question of principle. i like efficiency and hate dumm stuff. if it's said to do this, and it does not, then i consider it a lie, and will ***** about it. clear enough?
what you say is nihil novi ante sol. what you say is relevant to a straight car purchase only, and need to be supported by repair costs. i read a cute article 2 years ago, when author statistically showed that there is no advantage to buy a hybrid, and repairs cost on average 30% more. now, should you combine your statement with repair costs involved - yes, there's no point in buying one.
there are much more fuel efficient vehicles out there, that produce probably less pollution than TCH, but we do not buy them. why? because we are humans. some fell under hype spell, pumped into our brains by traders. you ever watched South Park episode on Prii? some bought them out of necessity, weening away from gas guzzlers. ( i apologize to admin, i WILL NOT believe that buying a hybrid Escalade is a NECESSITY).
some bought it out of $$ calculations. say, i bought mine used and cash, no debt; i am paid for mileage, so better mileage=more $$ into my pocket; i am a very large fella, 275, 6'5'' worked out body, so i do not fit well into a Civic. i tried. this one has more shoulder/hip/leg room than my Silverado. some bought it hoping for a decent mileage family hauler (yeah, right, every pound lowers mpg instantly). many reasons. some bought it to tinker with and turn it into a 600hp race car. it's whatever. NO ONE listened to the sense of reason and sober calculation. humane, so humane.
i know what i WANT to have, except that i can't. i want one of them European market stratified direct injection engine vehicles, with electrical turbo charger. can't buy them here, and they made it absolutely not cost efficient to import one, and if even so done, it will not pass emissions here anyway, and will work worth of **** on bad gas we have here. so, like they said back in an old Russian cartoon - All the best are dead! Well, then get best amongst the worst. for what we have available - TCH is an OK car.
now, considering that hybrid wars are now going full steam, with Hyundai introducing their own Hybrid drive - sounds like by the time i'll reach the magic "must sell" marker, which is 95000 miles, there will be several decent sized vehicles available, doing easily 50mpg average. maybe it will be a SDI engine, maybe original Porsche design hybrids, maybe something else. i still have about 5 years to get there. i drive a lot but do not put a lot of mileage on her, as i alternate with my - he-he, blasphemy - Silverado. or will simply find a 95 Civic in good shape, fix it, and switch to it. 45mpg and no worries, and i do fit, my son had one.
i have quite a few notches on your "obsession" list. well, here's the thing. i am paid for driving. i do a lot of business mileage and am paid at IRS rate for every mile. let me spit 3 times to make sure i do not jinx this. hence, my gas, my wife's gas and my Silverado gas are all covered and we have nice leftover.
so why do I concern about mpg? well with me, it is a question of principle. i like efficiency and hate dumm stuff. if it's said to do this, and it does not, then i consider it a lie, and will ***** about it. clear enough?
what you say is nihil novi ante sol. what you say is relevant to a straight car purchase only, and need to be supported by repair costs. i read a cute article 2 years ago, when author statistically showed that there is no advantage to buy a hybrid, and repairs cost on average 30% more. now, should you combine your statement with repair costs involved - yes, there's no point in buying one.
there are much more fuel efficient vehicles out there, that produce probably less pollution than TCH, but we do not buy them. why? because we are humans. some fell under hype spell, pumped into our brains by traders. you ever watched South Park episode on Prii? some bought them out of necessity, weening away from gas guzzlers. ( i apologize to admin, i WILL NOT believe that buying a hybrid Escalade is a NECESSITY).
some bought it out of $$ calculations. say, i bought mine used and cash, no debt; i am paid for mileage, so better mileage=more $$ into my pocket; i am a very large fella, 275, 6'5'' worked out body, so i do not fit well into a Civic. i tried. this one has more shoulder/hip/leg room than my Silverado. some bought it hoping for a decent mileage family hauler (yeah, right, every pound lowers mpg instantly). many reasons. some bought it to tinker with and turn it into a 600hp race car. it's whatever. NO ONE listened to the sense of reason and sober calculation. humane, so humane.
i know what i WANT to have, except that i can't. i want one of them European market stratified direct injection engine vehicles, with electrical turbo charger. can't buy them here, and they made it absolutely not cost efficient to import one, and if even so done, it will not pass emissions here anyway, and will work worth of **** on bad gas we have here. so, like they said back in an old Russian cartoon - All the best are dead! Well, then get best amongst the worst. for what we have available - TCH is an OK car.
now, considering that hybrid wars are now going full steam, with Hyundai introducing their own Hybrid drive - sounds like by the time i'll reach the magic "must sell" marker, which is 95000 miles, there will be several decent sized vehicles available, doing easily 50mpg average. maybe it will be a SDI engine, maybe original Porsche design hybrids, maybe something else. i still have about 5 years to get there. i drive a lot but do not put a lot of mileage on her, as i alternate with my - he-he, blasphemy - Silverado. or will simply find a 95 Civic in good shape, fix it, and switch to it. 45mpg and no worries, and i do fit, my son had one.
Tinker yes.
600hp, no.
#13
06-08-2011, 06:32 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
oh, so that was YOU who wants a 600 hp TCH? bad, bad boy....
you see how easy it is to burn yourself? never said it was you doing this,
YOU did. ha-ha.
#14
06-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
it is not a necessity but the sensible option since I was in the market for a luxury SUV. the lexus LX570 gets 12mpg, the range - 12mpg, porsche cayenne -12mpg, regular escalade-12mpg, MB GL gas and bluetec all gets less mileage than the escalade hybrid. my honda pilot 4wd=13mpg(true story).
evois, hey, no need to justify yourself.
I needed an SUV, a luxury SUV that will not hit me in the wallet
you did not NEED it, you WANTED it. that's 1500 miles apart situation. if you can afford it - amen, nothing feels better than a comfy ride coast to coast.
#15
06-08-2011, 06:51 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
My previous vehicle got about 10 mpgs. My TCH gets about 35 mpgs. I really don't care about the difference between 35 and 40. The next time I go shopping, if there are vehicles that get substantially more mpgs, and are about as comfortable, I might buy one. But I'm not going to do silly things that might lead to a collision with another vehicle, just to try to save a few pennies.
In light traffic, you can play those games if you want. In South Florida, with 12-lane highways and very congested traffic, I don't want to be looking at the instruments. During rush hour commutes, my attention is on the other cars..
In light traffic, you can play those games if you want. In South Florida, with 12-lane highways and very congested traffic, I don't want to be looking at the instruments. During rush hour commutes, my attention is on the other cars..
#16
06-08-2011, 06:51 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
I think for some hypermiling is a legal and interesting challenge. As much as anyone wants to enjoy something they enjoy getting the most out their ability to get from A to B using less fuel than "normals" in whatever they are driving.
#17
06-08-2011, 07:11 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
I just got my '08 TCH (non-nav) in April. I'm still in the obsessive stages.
My commutes are typically rather short. It's only around 4 miles to work; and I've only taken a couple of one-way trips longer than 20 miles since I've had the car. In my limited experience, the difference between trying and not trying at those distances is greater than just a few mpg. When I first got the car, I would occasionally hit 25 mpg average for a trip to work (same is true for when my wife drives it). With a little bit of practice, I'm now up around 35 for the same trip.
The biggest change for me is that in areas where the speed limit is 40 or less, I actually go the speed limit. And I stopped accelerating to stop signs and red lights. Those aren't exactly advanced hypermiling techniques, but they've helped. And they haven't taken any bit of the joy out of driving the car. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Maybe I'll feel different when the honeymoon is over, but I hope not!
My commutes are typically rather short. It's only around 4 miles to work; and I've only taken a couple of one-way trips longer than 20 miles since I've had the car. In my limited experience, the difference between trying and not trying at those distances is greater than just a few mpg. When I first got the car, I would occasionally hit 25 mpg average for a trip to work (same is true for when my wife drives it). With a little bit of practice, I'm now up around 35 for the same trip.
The biggest change for me is that in areas where the speed limit is 40 or less, I actually go the speed limit. And I stopped accelerating to stop signs and red lights. Those aren't exactly advanced hypermiling techniques, but they've helped. And they haven't taken any bit of the joy out of driving the car. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Maybe I'll feel different when the honeymoon is over, but I hope not!
#18
06-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
i am a drag. it's not that i do not drive reasonably fast - i do 5 above speed limit (hold on, i have to continuously calculate speed i am going with, as my speedo is off by 4). but i do accelerate very slowly and steadily. folks behind DO NOT like this. esp now, after i shaved mine, so there's no signs of her being a hybrid and them "understanding" the greatness of my effort.
i honestly tried to forget about all this mileage chase, turn display to more entertaining things, like outside temperature and - hmm, what is that we have entertaining on nav unit? - well, no choices, so simply turn "consumption" off. best i could do was about a week. it's an iffing addiction, to keep eye on **** average mpg. a tenth of a mile pops up - and it's like honey on your lips. this thing is addictive, folks.
though i must say, she can be a very mean machine on the road. i have done it few times, seriously pissed off one ford explorer and one nissan titan. seriously. but that comes at huge drop in mpg that takes weeks to restore.
for me, to vent out my stupidity, it is good to alternate with my Silverado. mpg is what it is, not gonna make it better, not gonna make it much worse either, just step on it and go... get some adrenaline.. Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde...
i honestly tried to forget about all this mileage chase, turn display to more entertaining things, like outside temperature and - hmm, what is that we have entertaining on nav unit? - well, no choices, so simply turn "consumption" off. best i could do was about a week. it's an iffing addiction, to keep eye on **** average mpg. a tenth of a mile pops up - and it's like honey on your lips. this thing is addictive, folks.
though i must say, she can be a very mean machine on the road. i have done it few times, seriously pissed off one ford explorer and one nissan titan. seriously. but that comes at huge drop in mpg that takes weeks to restore.
for me, to vent out my stupidity, it is good to alternate with my Silverado. mpg is what it is, not gonna make it better, not gonna make it much worse either, just step on it and go... get some adrenaline.. Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde...
#19
06-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
I don't have a TCH but an 04 HCH.
I obsessed over milege for the first 5 years or so. It was a lot of fun and made an otherwise boring drive rather exciting judging every moment of my commute, reasoning it out to squeeze the last insignificant amount of energy from a puff of vapor. Compare that to "spacing out", watching the lines go by thinking of something else on the radio.
So it was a lot of fun, and I began my trip back to normalcy after I achieved what I believe is my best MPG effort for the vehicle.
I'm not sure about the TCH but my experience in the HCH has been low 40's MPG by gassing it really hard averaging 80MPH in the left lanes to almost 75MPG obsessing with it. "Normal" drivers average around 46MPG in my same car. I probably averaged around 65MPG in those first few years.
I'm about to cross 200,000 miles and I don't have the time at the moment to calculate the savings of 42MPG vs 46 vs 65MPG but it is definetly significant.
These days I drive more moderately but still do some basic conservative economy techiques and average about 60MPG. Still not bad. If gas spikes to $5 or more I have the skill set to deal with it.
Haroldo wrote:
You can't compare the efforts of a hypermiler who is truly obsessive with the average driver, who might faithfully but moderately try a few things to improve economy, hence his negligible results. A self trained hypermiler will see better results than 5 MPG.
A "good" obsessive hypermiler will run that 35MPG up to at least 50, and turn an otherwise mundane and boring ride into something more exciting. He will wish he could drive a bit further after reaching his destination which is something an average driver would not.
I obsessed over milege for the first 5 years or so. It was a lot of fun and made an otherwise boring drive rather exciting judging every moment of my commute, reasoning it out to squeeze the last insignificant amount of energy from a puff of vapor. Compare that to "spacing out", watching the lines go by thinking of something else on the radio.
So it was a lot of fun, and I began my trip back to normalcy after I achieved what I believe is my best MPG effort for the vehicle.
I'm not sure about the TCH but my experience in the HCH has been low 40's MPG by gassing it really hard averaging 80MPH in the left lanes to almost 75MPG obsessing with it. "Normal" drivers average around 46MPG in my same car. I probably averaged around 65MPG in those first few years.
I'm about to cross 200,000 miles and I don't have the time at the moment to calculate the savings of 42MPG vs 46 vs 65MPG but it is definetly significant.
These days I drive more moderately but still do some basic conservative economy techiques and average about 60MPG. Still not bad. If gas spikes to $5 or more I have the skill set to deal with it.
Haroldo wrote:
At best, one can 'push' their car from ~34 (EPA) to ~40. Yes, I know a few can go higher, but we're talking average here.
A "good" obsessive hypermiler will run that 35MPG up to at least 50, and turn an otherwise mundane and boring ride into something more exciting. He will wish he could drive a bit further after reaching his destination which is something an average driver would not.
Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004; 06-09-2011 at 12:30 PM.
#20
06-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Re: Mileage obsession...is it worth it?
On Tuesday morning of this week, two different cars "weaved" into my lane while they were _beside_ me. Not just a little bit. Neither was a case of "his tire touched the painted line". Both were cases of "his entire car entered my f---ing lane, and if I had not taken evasive action, there would certainly have been a collision."
One of them was an old guy, obviously drunk off his gourd. He was not on the phone. After I dodged him, I watched for a little while. He "weaved" entirely into other lanes three times in about a minute. He was going slow enough that I was able to pass while he was weaving in the other direction....
A few minutes later, the second one happened. This one was texting while driving, at 70mph in heavy traffic on a 12-lane road. No difference in vehicle behavior. The guy was much younger, but the car had several dents on the side already.
It is unusual to have two of those in one morning.
I have noticed, recently, that a LOT of cars seem to have dents on the sides.
That's why I don't like to look at the display while I'm driving.
One of them was an old guy, obviously drunk off his gourd. He was not on the phone. After I dodged him, I watched for a little while. He "weaved" entirely into other lanes three times in about a minute. He was going slow enough that I was able to pass while he was weaving in the other direction....
A few minutes later, the second one happened. This one was texting while driving, at 70mph in heavy traffic on a 12-lane road. No difference in vehicle behavior. The guy was much younger, but the car had several dents on the side already.
It is unusual to have two of those in one morning.
I have noticed, recently, that a LOT of cars seem to have dents on the sides.
That's why I don't like to look at the display while I'm driving.
