I’ve just complete my first oil change at 1633 miles on my wife’s TCH with Mobil 1 0W-20 and a dealer oil filter. The dealer through in the filter with the sale and a few other goodies (mudguards, bra, and wheel locks) plus $500 off sticker. After removing the used filter I noticed that its part number (90915-10004) was different then the dealers (90915-YZZF1) and the inner components of the original filter were very much different than the dealer’s version right down to the color of the rubber seal ring. Needless to say that the original filter looked of much better material and construction possibly due to the fact the factory installed filter was made in Japan while the dealers was made in Thailand. At any rate I’m not at all happy with the dealer’s filter, which they say is the replacement, and want to find a better filter that is the same size or large (Mobil 1 and K&N aftermarket filters are smaller). Does anyone know of a cross reference chart on the net that would cover the TCH? I realize that the gas engine portion is the same as previous models but am still unable to find a chart that covers several brands.

 

The filter manufacturers have reference guides on their respective websites.

The oil filter serves little purpose after wear-in contrary to what some people may want you to believe. If you practice the recommended drain interval, literally, the oil filter is just there to "catch rocks."

As long as the oil/filter is changed at the recommended interval, it is very unlikely that one particular brand/model oil filter will significantly increase your engine life over another.

 

this is totally absurd.

please read:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
http://www.synlube.com/oilfilters.htm

filters are not all the same, not even close

as the engine in run contaminants work thier way into the oil, the oil (especially synthetic) is very good at "trapping" these contaminants in the oil. the filter then catches this and prevents it from cycling around the engine.

also engine sludge is basically oil that has been over saturated with contaminants.
Change your oil and filter at the recommended intervals. Most of the time 3000 is excessive on newer cars, but follow the manufacturers recommendations.

Filters do more than just "clean" the oil they radiate heat from the oil, they most defiantly filter contaminants and they have pressure bypasses in them to ensure the flow of oil even if they get clogged. If you go too long without changing the filter the bypass will open and you WILL have no filter. and your oil pan will fill with sludge that is very hard to clean out.

 

The two links you provided have little credibility...one is from a snake oil vendor of niche products and the other is from a backyard "scientist." Do automakers rely on backyard scientists for reliable info on which oil filters are best? His recommendation of M1, K&N, etc filters over Fram, etc filters are strictly based upon his opinion. It is strictly his opinion that the construction methods Champion Labs uses was superior to what Honeywell used. There was no scientific data from a controlled experiment to verify his filter recommendations.

Oil is designed to keep contaminants in suspension. Bigger chunks (hate to use this term) are caught by the filter. Synthetic oils do not have an advantage in keeping contaminants in suspension for a longer period of time...or else automakers would've jumped on the bandwagon the day syn oil launched. Contrary to the marketing hype, the main advantages of synthetic oil are: improved heat resistance at oil temperatures > 305F, improved cold temperature flow, and extended drain intervals under certain conditions.

Your explanation of sludge is partially correct. Yes, oil sludge is oil that has been overloaded with contaminants. But not dirt. It is either excessive antifreeze contamination for a leak, water contamination from either a leak or very, very short trips and inadequate oil changes, or depleted oil (additives) from a very long service interval (> 15k miles) that have rendered the oil unable to protect against normal contamination.

3000 mi is excessive on newer cars? The average drain interval with the GM Oil Life System has been 8500 miles or more for years now, and Honda dealerships (are telling me) that many of their customers have been going 6-7k miles in between service with the Maintenance Minder. VW/Audi has been going 10k miles in between service for many of their vehicles when using the correct oil, likewise BMW.

But yes, it is certainly possible for the filter to bypass if they get clogged...contrary to what you may read, it is quite uncommon for many filters to reach their bypass valve thresholds even when run well beyond their intended service intervals. In fact, even your backyard “scientist” can test this by setting up his own gauge…

Lastly, there are probably many, many cars on the road today that get serviced with nothing other than the latest API spec-ed oil with the lowest quality Fram/Champion labs filters at more than the recommended interval, yet last well over 150k miles, if not more. And if this is relevant, I just pulled off the valve cover on my 96 Saturn 1.9 DOHC with 96k miles. For the last 40-50k miles, the oil and filter was changed every 7-10k miles with whatever 5w30 mineral oil and cheapest filters I had lying around. Recommended service interval under my driving conditions (1-2 mi trips mostly) was 3mo/3k by Saturn. Oil consumption was about 1qt/2-3k miles. Always kept oil level at full. There was absolutely no sludge or even heavy varnish. Only a light golden coating of varnish on the valvetrain.

 

Would like too thank you both (twuelfing & SodaGuy) for the info, I will take both under consideration however SodaGuy makes allot of sense. Seems the public has been feed allot of hype for the sake of profit when you take under consideration the variance in filter cost. Nonetheless I am still seeking a cross reference chart with several manufactures rather than flip between web sites in order to have the freedom of choose.

 

I am not sure which part of my post you are disputing?

The links i provided were the first 2 from a google search. Perhaps they arent the best sources, but i stand by my claim that you need an oil filter that is made well and is replaced regularly.

I was simply attempting to point out that oil filters are useful. and do more than catch rocks.

i think you would find that you would have issues if you removed your oil filter and replaced it with just a bypass.

I would be very interested in seeing some data to back up your claim that there is no need for a filter.

using 1 quart per 3000 miles is a pretty rapid pace for loss. I have never had to add a quart between oil changes in any honda I have had, some with upto 180k on them. That being said, I always use good oil and good filters. Now i agree that if you use the crappiest stuff you can find and adhere to the service interval you will probably be fine, but if you can get a better filter and better oil for just a bit more I think its worth the investment given that engine damage is so expensive to fix.

until someone posts some verifiable peer reviewed data I guess we will just have to be speculating.

 

IMHO, the key word in your statement is "Honda". It could have been Toyota, Subaru, Mazda or Nissan. NONE of the Japanese cars (and motorcycles) that I have owned over the last 40-some-odd years ever used oil - even at 160K+ miles. Yes, I always use a good oil. Dino in my cars (synthetic in my motorcycles, because of the wet clutch).

I use OEM filters on my motorcycles and S2K, and "whatever" on all my cars.

The main thing, IMHO, is regular oil/filter changes (every 5K) using a "good" proper weght oil.

(nothing like a good oil thread!!!!)

 

I routinly go 10K - 15K miles between oil changes in my truck. It is a diesel and hold 4 gallons of oil, so oil temperature is much more stable, and there is much more oil there for the additives to be in, but I have not had a consumption problem yet. I loose more oil to all the leaks that Ford designed into the oil delivery system than the truck burns. I do have a by-pass filter that filters really small particles out of the oil, don't remember, but I think it filters to like 2-3 microns. This is just a bypass filter, so not much oil goes thru it and it goes really slow. On big truck, it is not uncommon for them to NEVEr change the oil. They will just drain a little out change the filter and top off the level with new oil to replenish the additive package.

Either way, I don't feel that oil wears out, but it just gets loaded with junk. The stock filter just can't filter the small stuff out, if you were to put a filter on the engine that actually did filter the small stuff out, it would either be as big as the engine or not flow enough oil.

For my TCH, I just plan to have the dealer do the changes at the recomended 5,000 marks with the 0w20 oil and whatever filter they decide to put on there. If they recomended 10,000 miles between changes, I would go 10,000 miles.

 

The original filter is made by Denso in Japan for Toyota. The YZZF1 is made in Thailand for Toyota North America, hence the difference. Try a Mobil 1 filter size M1-209, it will fit almost all Toyota engines that take the YZZF1 and YZZF2 filters. Same specs as the Toyota filters, just a lot more media surface area. I use it on my '05 Prius. Just make sure the gasket seats on the engine properly since it is a little wider.

Wayne

 

Thanks FireEngineer, Although all the replies were very informative and interesting you have given me the closest possible answer to my original question.