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Prius Mods
I spoke with the dealer I purchased my car from regarding mods to the prius.
They advised me that if I had made any mods to the engine or the eletrical sys that would void the warrenties on the car. Just thought I would pass this on.. |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by PriusGuy04
I spoke with the dealer I purchased my car from regarding mods to the prius.
They advised me that if I had made any mods to the engine or the eletrical sys that would void the warrenties on the car. Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Bob~
This is very true, I to would mod my vehicle if the warr was expired.. I just thought I would pass this info on to others who still have a warr. on thier vehicle and what to possibly expect, if they take the car in to have any type of warr service.. Im not sure but wouldnt the computer read the mod? |
Re: Prius Mods
what mods are you talking about???
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Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by plusaf
what mods are you talking about???
I am now working on an automatic 'pulse and glide' unit. Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Example:1
Toyota warns that use of the EV button could reduce fuel efficiency. Also, extreme swings in SOC of NiMH batteries can cause damage or shorten the usable life of the battery. The system is programmed to avoid over-charging or deep discharging, but some risk to the battery may exist. If you have a problem with your battery or Hybrid system or ECU and you have performed this modification, it may void your warranty and you could be responsible for thousands of dollars for repairs even if it can't be shown that the EV button was the cause of the damage. Consider this very carefully before you perform this or any modification.. Example:2 A California non-profit company has designed a conversion kit specifically for the wildly popular hybrid that would improve on the car’s “green” engine by making it into a part-time plug-in. The kit’s extra batteries plug into an electrical outlet and hold a charge that powers the car entirely on electricity 20-60 miles, after which its hybrid gasoline-electric engine kicks in so you’re not stuck on the roadside. The company says it’s great for the lower-speed, short commutes that comprise the majority of our automobile use. Less gas consumption, fewer emissions, a cleaner environment. The Catch: The kit is not a Toyota product, and the auto manufacturer says that owners who install it void the car’s warranty, discouraging many Prius owners from trying the kit. In laymans terms, if you make or add non toyota parts that change or modify the operation of the gas engine or electrical drive system and something breaks or changes. Weather directly or indirectly after the modification has been made or in the process of instaling the modification. Will void the vehicle warranty, which may leave the owner of a new prius paying the cost of the repair. I'll wait till the warranty runs out before doing any mods to be safe.. |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by PriusGuy04
Toyota warns that use of the EV button could reduce fuel efficiency. Also, extreme swings in
SOC of NiMH batteries can cause damage or shorten the usable life of the battery. The system is programmed to avoid over-charging or deep discharging, but some risk to the battery may exist. If you have a problem with your battery or Hybrid system or ECU and you have performed this modification, it may void your warranty and you could be responsible for thousands of dollars for repairs even if it can't be shown that the EV button was the cause of the damage. Consider this very carefully before you perform this modification <3 copies snipped...> Toyota’s hybrid car, Prius, can get 40 miles to the gallon. How about 100 mph? Shocking, and rightfully so. This dream car would get its boost from electric batteries. A California non-profit company has designed a conversion kit specifically for the wildly popular hybrid that would improve on the car’s “green” engine by making it into a part-time plug-in. The kit’s extra batteries plug into an electrical outlet and hold a charge that powers the car entirely on electricity 20-60 miles, after which its hybrid gasoline-electric engine kicks in so you’re not stuck on the roadside. The company says it’s great for the lower-speed, short commutes that comprise the majority of our automobile use. Less gas consumption, fewer emissions, a cleaner environment. The hitch: The kit is not a Toyota product, and the auto manufacturer says that owners who install it void the car’s warranty, discouraging many Prius owners from trying the kit. Ira’s guest is not out to take business away from the auto companies; in fact, he hopes to persuade them to work together with his company to incorporate the technology into a product that would be beneficial and affordable. yeah, hitches may be dangerous to the Prius' health... if so, then putting four 300-pound people into the car and driving uphill should void the warranty, too... :angel: |
Re: Prius Mods
Oh thanks plusaf, I tried to edit that but you where too quick on the draw for me ;)
The server did not take the first posting so I tried a cpl of time and that is why it multiplied.. I edited the posting and reposted it... Im not sure on instaling the hitch, or a K & N air breather kit or adding synthetic oils. But any EV modification, computer modification or engine modification will void the vehicles warranty. As found on the net or explained by the dealer service dept. I just thought if it where me and I was going to modify my new car and I still had all the warranties & that the modification could /would VOID the warranty. I would want to know that before hand.... So I'm throwing it out there.... ;) |
Re: Prius Mods
Posted ONLY for the entertainment value:
Ebay item: 8005115446 The claim is you can get a 7-22 HP boost just by 'fooling' the IAT. They also show an engine performance chart that goes out to 6,000 rpm (Prius are limited to 4-4,500 rpm). I remain extremely skeptical, more amused than anything else. Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Or you could spend a few cents on a resistor. Or if you wanted the same adjustability, a couple of bucks for a potentiometer would do the trick.
Freeware is available that lets you see how a honda ECM works. For certain models you can look at the fuel and ignition tables as well as IAT and ECT compensation levels. On a 75F day, fooling the ECU into thinking that the AIT is 0F will result in 21% more fuel to be delivered. That could possibly produce more power. The same goes for ECT. When the coolant temp is 170F, fooling the ECU into thinking that the ECT is 0F will result in 75% more fuel to be delivered under full throttle conditions. That could also possibly produce more power. Now if you want to deliver less fuel, on a 75F day, making the ECU think that the AIT is 150F or higher will result in a 6% decrease in fuel delivery. This info is from my 93 Del Sol ECU programming. I have no idea how the Prius is programmed but one would think that there would be some similarities. |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by krousdb
Or you could spend a few cents on a resistor. Or if you wanted the same adjustability, a couple of bucks for a potentiometer would do the trick.
Freeware is available that lets you see how a honda ECM works. For certain models you can look at the fuel and ignition tables as well as IAT and ECT compensation levels. On a 75F day, fooling the ECU into thinking that the AIT is 0F will result in 21% more fuel to be delivered. That could possibly produce more power. The same goes for ECT. When the coolant temp is 170F, fooling the ECU into thinking that the ECT is 0F will result in 75% more fuel to be delivered under full throttle conditions. That could also possibly produce more power. Now if you want to deliver less fuel, on a 75F day, making the ECU think that the AIT is 150F or higher will result in a 6% decrease in fuel delivery. . . . I suspect the hybrid vehicle ECM would simply adjust the throttle until it had the energy output needed. Meanwhile, the mixiture would be either too rich or too lean and the results would be lower MPG and higher emissions . . . not something I'd recommend. Personally, I like the electric super-charger approach better. The boost is modest so no intercooler is needed. It can be an 'on demand' case which lets us keep normal MPG. Best of all, the regular engine controls and systems work normally. The vehicle just acts as if the pressure altitude went down a couple of thousand feet. On the high plains, the car should be quite zippy. Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
This sounds like a way to fool the control systems into either a richer or leaner mixture setting.
I suspect the hybrid vehicle ECM would simply adjust the throttle until it had the energy output needed. Meanwhile, the mixiture would be either too rich or too lean and the results would be lower MPG and higher emissions . . . not something I'd recommend. Personally, I like the electric super-charger approach better. The boost is modest so no intercooler is needed. It can be an 'on demand' case which lets us keep normal MPG. Best of all, the regular engine controls and systems work normally. The vehicle just acts as if the pressure altitude went down a couple of thousand feet. On the high plains, the car should be quite zippy. Bob Wilson what actual results have been seen with priuses?" if i get an answer (that's printable in a family forum :) , i'll post it here.) i LIKE the supercharger idea, though! all other things equal, "fooling the engine" into thinking it's at lower altitude with denser air just means, i'd bet, that it'll put out sea-level levels of power, which might be higher than a mile or two further up. i also wondered why, or if, the Atkinson-cycle Prius engine couldn't be "educated" to know the altitude, or maybe just by using a preignition knock sensor, to close the intake valves a LOT sooner at high altitude, regaining the peak compression pressures of sea level, just by more vigorously changing the intake valves' timing.... ?? |
Re: Prius Mods
got an answer already: yep, it fools the air temp sensor....
"If your vehicle has Fuel injection then this will work in your vehicle...... The Progressive Tuner Simply Wires into The Factory harness of the IAT Sensor. (IAT=Intake Air Temperature Sensor) The Module will work with the sensor to provide a new signal to your vehicles computer, or ECU. The ECU then adjusts your air/fuel and timing advance curves to New performance Settings. Our progressive Tuner Eliminates costly parts and installation of ECU components(many ECU mods require you to solder and modify the main board), and still safely and legally provides the same end results. There is NO risk of damage to the engine or electrical system since the modified sensor signal will always remain within the manufacturer's recommended specifications. The module works in conjunction with your vehicles ECU and will not affect engine reliability. Installation is very simple. All instructions are included and install should take about a 1/2 hour. The performance power module can even quickly and easily be removed or re-installed at any time. Thanks for the email......Let me know......" |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by plusaf
in the old days, messing with the mixture like that would do nasty things like burn exhaust valves... if the hybrid uses exhaust gas O2 sensors, messing around with the mixture might just bring THAT feedback into the loop and counteract it
Originally Posted by plusaf
.... i wrote to the eBayer and asked, "i thought the prius' engine control computers limited the rpms to about 4500....
what actual results have been seen with priuses?" if i get an answer (that's printable in a family forum , i'll post it here.)
Originally Posted by plusaf
i LIKE the supercharger idea, though! all other things equal, "fooling the engine" into thinking it's at lower altitude with denser air just means, i'd bet, that it'll put out sea-level levels of power, which might be higher than a mile or two further up.
Originally Posted by plusaf
i also wondered why, or if, the Atkinson-cycle Prius engine couldn't be "educated" to know the altitude, or maybe just by using a preignition knock sensor, to close the intake valves a LOT sooner at high altitude, regaining the peak compression pressures of sea level, just by more vigorously changing the intake valves' timing....
It looks like the "Oil Control Valve" operates the "Valve Timing Controller Assembly." It may be possible to tap or externally control this signal. Before making any active changes, I'd want to monitor it and several other engine parameters to determine how the ECU operates it. I would expect the low-pressure or 'off' position would have the lowest possible compression ratio to make starting easier. Once running, it should move the valves to a higher ratio. Once the valve control signal is identified, an ordinary compression tester could measure the ranges: starting ratio and operating ratio. As for increasing the compression ratio, it may be possible to use Echo parts. But I'd rather use a supercharger than make those kind of changes. Living about 700-800 ft. above sea level, more power doesn't help me and would have a negitive impact on MPG. If I lived in the high plains or a mountainous area, I'd be more interested in supercharging and valving changes. Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
I agree. The O(2) sensor and exhaust temperature gage should be controlling the mixture. As for timing, I would expect RPM to be the primary determinant.
<snipped> Living about 700-800 ft. above sea level, more power doesn't help me and would have a negitive impact on MPG. If I lived in the high plains or a mountainous area, I'd be more interested in supercharging and valving changes. Bob Wilson now, i just assume that there's a range where this is feasible for changing the valve timing, and the high altitude rationale just doesn't fit in. if so, so be it. but, again, an electric supercharger that would pump the intake flow "all the way up to" sea-level pressure certainly couldn't hurt the engine, though it obviously would affect gas mileage.... if you're at high altitude, and there's less air per intake stroke, and the fuel/sir ratio stays within narrow bounds, adding more air would result in more fuel. performance might go up, but mpgs would almost of necessity and physics, drop. though the tradeoff might be nice... :lightbulb or how about another dash switch...;) |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by plusaf
. . .
but, again, an electric supercharger that would pump the intake flow "all the way up to" sea-level pressure certainly couldn't hurt the engine, though it obviously would affect gas mileage.... if you're at high altitude, and there's less air per intake stroke, and the fuel/sir ratio stays within narrow bounds, adding more air would result in more fuel. performance might go up, but mpgs would almost of necessity and physics, drop. . . . As for MPG, the impact would be modest and still better than sea level performance. The Prius simulator shows high altitudes give great MPG primarily due to low air drag. Unfortunately, I don't think the simulators report "time to reach passing speed" and maximum speed up an "x% grade" or against a "y MPH head wind." But then I haven't made a through study of the Prius simulators. Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
I agree. The O(2) sensor and exhaust temperature gage should be controlling the mixture.
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Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by krousdb
Yes, under normal driving conditions. But in a wide open throttle situation, I would expect that you would drop out of closed loop into an open loop condition. Then wouldn't the fuel and ignition values revert to the preprogrammed base values? If so, the extra fuel delivered due to fooling the sensors would not be counteracted by the O2 sensor? Just hypothysising here.
Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
I could never pass up on an experiment! Unfortunately, since the wife has the Prius now, I'm no longer allowed to experiment with her car. I am working on sometning for the Del Sol, but for better FE, not more power. The target AFR's for the hondas are stioch (14.7:1) only at high vacuums above 18 in hg. Below 18 in hg, the targer afr is 12.46:1. This is probably for good throttle response and relies on the O2 sensor to trim it back. Im planning on changing the target back to 14.7:1 to see if there is an increase in FE. I might also play with the AIT and ECT multipliers to decrease the richness at cold air and coolent temps. Presumably these are done to prevent driveability issues in cold weather but they probably overdo it just to be sure. I am hoping to squeeze out a few more MPG while still meeting the emmissions requirements.
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Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by krousdb
I could never pass up on an experiment! Unfortunately, since the wife has the Prius now, I'm no longer allowed to experiment with her car. I am working on sometning for the Del Sol, but for better FE, not more power. . . .
GOOD LUCK! Bob Wilson |
Re: Prius Mods
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
Back in 1972, I drove another 1500 cc vehicle, a VW MicroBus across the high plains of Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and via Reno to San Francisco. Drafting semi-trailer trucks was not an option, it was manditory to keep at highway speeds.
As for MPG, the impact would be modest and still better than sea level performance. The Prius simulator shows high altitudes give great MPG primarily due to low air drag. Unfortunately, I don't think the simulators report "time to reach passing speed" and maximum speed up an "x% grade" or against a "y MPH head wind." But then I haven't made a through study of the Prius simulators. Bob Wilson :angel: |
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