Some key fob experiments
Hi,
I've been doing some engineering analysis of key fobs: http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_fob.html Although North American key fobs work at 315 mHz +/- 2.5 mHz, there can be many different frequencies and data encoding methods. I'm using the Atmel, Blackbird development system to analyze the NHW11, 2001-03, and just starting on the NHW20, 2004-current, key fobs. Eventually I will be looking at a larger range of key fobs. Questions? Bob Wilson |
Re: Some key fob experiments
Interesting, what do you hope to find out or discover? Just looking into because your curious?
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Re: Some key fob experiments
My goal is to demonstrate a pedestrian safety key fob system for at risk pedestrians: (1) pre-school kids, (2) +65 age adults, (3) blind, and (4) mobility challenged pedestrians. To achieve this, I need to know how remote keyless entry systems work on my favorite vehicles. So I need to expand my network engineering skills with hands-on practice with:
The blind have a bill, HR 5734, that proposed to put noise makers on our hybrids without alerting the driver about at these at-risk pedestrians. The sound might notify a blind pedestrian but it is also likely to be lost in the traffic. The proposed 'noise makers' add costs to our Prius with no proven safety improvement. But I look at it from a different point of view. We can expand the utility of the existing key fob receivers by adding new software to eliminate hardware cost and expand coverage to a larger pool of at-risk pedestrians. This can demonstratably increase safety and may be enough to get an insurance policy discount for our Prius. Bob Wilson |
Re: Some key fob experiments
So if I get what you're saying, if the adopted design parameters go toward modifying existing key fobs through software augmentation, an at-risk pedestrian would then be able to buy one of the generic key fobs that would already be in distribution to car owners, carry it in their pocket, and the proximity of a hybrid vehicle would set off an alarm noise from the vehicle? Sounds like it would work if the alarm was the horn. If it uses the normal positive feedback beeper of the key fob, the pedestrian may not notice it.
Of course, it's really up to the driver to avoid pedestrians anyway. All this does is give participant pedestrians an audible to replace engine noise in their hazard recognition. Seems like over kill to me, but hey! If the insurance companies think it is worth a discount who am I to argue. |
Re: Some key fob experiments
Originally Posted by Bull Winkus
(Post 187511)
So if I get what you're saying, if the adopted design parameters go toward modifying existing key fobs through software augmentation, an at-risk pedestrian would then be able to buy one of the generic key fobs that would already be in distribution to car owners, carry it in their pocket, and the proximity of a hybrid vehicle would set off an alarm noise from the vehicle? Sounds like it would work if the alarm was the horn. If it uses the normal positive feedback beeper of the key fob, the pedestrian may not notice it.
Originally Posted by Bull Winkus
(Post 187511)
. . . Of course, it's really up to the driver to avoid pedestrians anyway. All this does is give participant pedestrians an audible to replace engine noise in their hazard recognition.
Originally Posted by Bull Winkus
(Post 187511)
. . . Seems like over kill to me, but hey! If the insurance companies think it is worth a discount who am I to argue.
Bob Wilson |
Re: Some key fob experiments
Wow. That is an incredible idea. I really hope this could be implemented some day. I think this would also be useful for other luxury ICE vehicles that can run just as quietly as a Prius in stealth mode. My coworker's new Lexus is silent when not accelerating.
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Re: Some key fob experiments
This is a great idea. I would like to offer a different spin on it.
What is the car emitted an RF signal that could be picked up by a fob on a person? Some advantages i see: 1. The fob could do different things for different needs (vibrate for deaf persons) 2. Battery life would be longer of the fob. 3. Would not create "extra noise" 4. The transmitter could be attached to other vehicles (like bicycles or scooters) |
Re: Some key fob experiments
How are you going to be able to receive the fob's signal? I've noticed several times the range of my key fob is only a few feet from my prius. is this a weakness of the antenna or receiving system or did they do it on purpose. Anyway what do you consider a acceptable distance to alert a pedestrian?
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Re: Some key fob experiments
Originally Posted by crbates
(Post 189009)
This is a great idea. I would like to offer a different spin on it.
What is the car emitted an RF signal that could be picked up by a fob on a person? Some advantages i see: 1. The fob could do different things for different needs (vibrate for deaf persons) 2. Battery life would be longer of the fob. 3. Would not create "extra noise" 4. The transmitter could be attached to other vehicles (like bicycles or scooters) The NHW20 uses a 134 mHz signal from the door handles to query for a near-by keyfob. The keyfob still transmits in the 315 mHz range. But this primitive system is just a fraction of the installed base. The keyfobs I've looked at have terrible wireless efficiency. Their bit rates are abysmal and there is no 'protocol' to avoid collisions. However, these receivers are installed in 80% of all North American vehicles. So this is how I would like to approach the problem. PHASE I - SAME MAKE AND MODEL PEDESTRIAN KEYFOB The first version is required for all vehicles and requires a pedestrian keyfob with these features:
PHASE II - UNIVERSAL PEDESTRIAN KEYFOB Working with the FCC, one narrow band in the 315 mHz range would defined as the beaconing frequency. Delayed ~6 years, all manufactures would be required to implement:
PHASE II - ALTERNATIVE WIFI OR CELLPHONE BASED I would also like to give the existing, wireless industry a chance to propose a keyfob replacement based upon:
Bob Wilson |
Re: Some key fob experiments
Originally Posted by Aether Glider
(Post 189021)
How are you going to be able to receive the fob's signal? I've noticed several times the range of my key fob is only a few feet from my prius. is this a weakness of the antenna or receiving system or did they do it on purpose. Anyway what do you consider a acceptable distance to alert a pedestrian?
Bob Wilson |
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