I thought I saw a thread a while ago on a similar subject, but now can't find it....

The AH service manual shows the first service at 7,500, but my dealer emailed
me saying my HAH "may now be due for a 3750 Mile Service"

I've always been skeptical of the "oil change every 3000 miles" brigade - I
figure they're just trying to generate more business.

Any reason I should do it at 3750 rather than just waiting for 7,500 miles ?

Honda Accord Hybrid w/ Navi
Graphite Exterior, Grey Interior
Auto dimming rearview mirror & spare tire
6925 miles (as at Nov 17 2005)

For the HCH, the first scheduled oil change is at 10k miles. The dealer STRESSED that it not be done earlier, unless I was driving the car VERY hard. He said that Honda likes to keep the oil from the factory in the engine as long as possible.

The best advice one can give is to look up the change interval in your manual or on the Honda website. The website says change at 7500/1 year normal 3750 miles severe for the HCH

Here is a link to that data: http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Mainten...=s&mi=3a&box=a


I guess the dealer is assuming you drive "severe".

-Charlie...

In the 1970's most automakers recommended changing the oil after 750 miles of varied and moderate driving.

Would love to know Honda's explaination on the 10K change interval.

60.3mpg lifetime - 71mpg in winter months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

My HAH manual suggests 7500 miles, but my dealer also recommended the 3750 instead. So I took it in at about 4k. I asked the guy at the service dept and he asked what kind of driving I do, and i said mainly stop and go on the freeway to/from work. He said that's considered severe driving and to go with the 3750 interval. He even suggested that most city driving in California is considered severe driving--not sure if that's true.

And anybody have a reason not to take the car for oil changes at a non-Honda dealer? I was planning to just take it to a Tune Up Masters or Jiffy Lube when it comes time again. Just don't want them to have a problem because it's a Hybrid. I may just follow the 3750 rule to be on the safe side.

The HCH has a crush washer that should be replaced each oil change. Does the HAH have this too?

I purchased these in bulk from an on-line auto parts store, they were about $.05 apiece when buying 100. I just placed in with another bulk order I had and the freight didn't kill the price. Buy 'em and bring 'em with you, if they are required.

-Charlie...

I had a 1988 CRX HF tuned up at a place like that - they nearly destroyed it. Lucky to get four more years out of it.

The one tuning up the car seemed like it was his first day at his job. Noticed the car was sluggish driving it. The next day, CRX overheated and lost power. When I was finally able to pull over, both the coolant and freon hoses ruptured. With the hood up, it looked like Old Faithful was erupting.

It would have been a good time to know a good attorney - the place flatly denied they were part of this. It does not suprise me that I can't locate the name of that chain on !Yahoo Yellow Pages.

Loved that CRX - had it for 250,000 miles and twelve years. After the tune-up that nearly killed it, my fuel economy and performance was cut by about a third. It could not longer pass the Texas emmisions test without driving it five miles first. In the past it passed effortlessly.

This is a story of the near-death of a conventional car - with the ignorance out there on hybrids do you want to take a chance? I will not.

60.3mpg lifetime - 71mpg in winter months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Re: 10,000mi initial OCI - It's mostly due to the additive pack. I had my break-in oil analyzed by Blackstone, and it showed > 500 ppm of Molybdenum (anti-wear). One of these days, I'll post that report in the 'share' section - I'd been curious to see what's in the magic Honda break-in oil for some time, and perhaps others might have their curiosity sated, as well.

(edit - 7/6/05: I've now posted the report in the 'share' section)

The other things we noted in the report were higher than normal Al, Si, and Cu - all due to break-in.

I changed mine out at 3781mi (my dealer advised 3750 for 1st oil change, btw). The TBN (Total Base Number, or amount of additive left) was listed at 2.8 (when it gets below 1, it's time to change it out).

Initial break-in looked complete at about 1700mi - I noticed the engine had loosened up a bit at 1200, and I got FE boosts at both mileages.

In retrospect, I wish I had changed out the oil at about 2000mi, with one that has a lot of Moly in it, to get rid of the Al and Cu (Aluminum is from the pistons / cylinder walls; Copper is from the bearings).

The Honda oil at the dealer has a fair amount (over 100ppm, IIRC) - but 1oz of Valvoline SynPower engine treatment added to the new oil will boost the moly (at least) to the break-in oil spec. It'll also raise the cSt (centistokes) significantly (higher levels are better). Found all of this out at www.bobistheoilguy.com - look at the 'virgin oil analysis' & 'used oil analysis' sections for gas engines - you can spend hours pouring over all the data there

So, in closing, here's what I'd do to *my* car, in hindsight...especially if I were going to keep it for the long-haul (10yrs or more). I'm doing the last 3 things currently.

- Change out the break-in oil / filter at 2000mi (or whenever broken in, rounded to the next 500mi interval). I want those wear metals and Silicone out of the engine.

- Go with a dino oil until 7500mi, adding 1oz of the SynPower (which will boost the moly, same as the break-in oil). You could change out at 5000, if you were really worried.

- At 7500mi, change out to a good synthetic (Mobil1, or, if you've got $ to spend, Amsoil). Again, boost with the SynPower until at least 15K, and preferably 20-25K.

- Change no later than every 7500mi to keep the warranty intact on the J30 V6 (10K is for the K24 I4, and the later Civic engines). If running synoil, 7500 should be pretty safe. Consider having the dealer do the changes, for warranty purposes. They'll generally deduct from the bill, if you bring them the oil, and Honda promotes their oil changes at about $29.95, IIRC.

- Have UOAs performed at selected intervals, to keep track of wear (optional).

- For filters, I'd go with the Honda OEM, especially during warranty period. They should be able to go 7500mi. Afterward, Purolator PureOne seems to be a good choice for an OCI of this type. Mobil1 filter is even better, but unless you're going to do extended drains, it's a bit costly.

- Finally, consider changing out the transmission fluid at 15K, to get rid of the wear metals from that component. The AT on the V6 engines has been failing in excess of 3% during the period '98-'03. Most of the issues should be fixed by now (3rd clutch seems to still be outstanding), but I think I'm going to over-maintain the AT, based on what I saw from my '01 coupe. There's no magic break-in fluid in the AT, but make sure you replace with only Honda ATF - it does affect shift quality.


Just my thoughts...YMMV

Mark

Sometimes we could all use a little less

My hybrid automobiles:

Current:
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (CVT, w/o Nav)
Magnetic Pearl / Blue - 008661, born 12/28/05
Mods: Neck pillows, Garmin C330 Nav, Draw-tite 1.25" hitch (for bikes, not towing!), Pioneer Inno XM receiver via Aux jack, OEM mud flaps, more to come!

Hypermiler status on 3/12/06 @ 3077mi.

Previous:
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid (5AT/Navi)
Desert Mist / Ivory - 001254
Retired 1/21/06 - LMPG 34.1

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Back to oil.......

I did a TON of research on oil and synthetic versus dino oil and oil change intervals etc etc a few years ago, 1999-2000.

The actual BEST way to handle early oil changes in ANY new car is this:

1. Change the oil the first time at 1,500 miles. This will remove all the metal shavings which have sheared off due to break-in of the metal engine parts. Use regular DINO oil for this change, not synthetic.

2. For the next change, choose your own personal oil change interval, be it 3K or 5K or 7.5K or 10K, whichever makes you feel best. But on that change and all future changes, use Synthetic oil. It is just better than Dino oil, there is no question about that. Mobil 1 is a fine choice, but there are many others too.

Right now in my 2004 HCH I have Mobil 1 "15,000 mile" oil and I have about 6,500 miles on this oil. So far, no evaporation, have not had to top it off, and the oil does not smell burned.

Good luck to all !!!

The HAH is our 7th Honda dating back to 1976. We've treated them all pretty much the same--Honda service intervals and oil changes around 7500 miles with a good grade of dino motor oil of the Honda recommended weight for our temp zone. With the exception of the 1976 wagon which had an oil seal problem around 60k, we drove all of them over 100k miles, one to 180k, a 1999 4cyl we still drive with 145k. None of the last 5 ever used any oil between any oil change; besides required maintenance, none have required any engine repair other than water pumps, alternator, belts, etc. The HAH is #7, and, and I expect the same performance from it using dino at the Honda recommended 7500 mile intervals. Time will tell.
Lewis

I've always just followed the manufacturers reccomendations. Why would you do anything else.? who knows the car better? I've had mazda 929 (370,000 miles), Nissan Maxima (273,000 miles - daughter totaled), Honda Accords (187,000 & still strong)... and all on regular pep boys oil. I've tried synthetics - absolutely NO difference in milage. It would appear to me that there is an unbelievable waste of oil in this country if people are changing their oil at 1500, then 3750 etc. instead of what the manufacturers are reccomending....7500. All of the above cars burned NO oil between changes and were sold/traded due to looks (rust) or accidents. I'm using the same oil for my new Accord Hybrid, and it's been performing above expectations...on my daily commutes ( 85 miles each way), I never get below 39 mpg, and up to 43.4 mpg occasionally.
hans