First of all, I want to thank everyone for all of the helpful advice.

I am just back from 250 mile trip in my Prius, and my back, a weak spot for me, was not in good shape by the end of the trip, whereas I drove at least that much in a rented Escape without problems, so the FEH is moving up my priority list.

Can anyone tell me, or tell me where to find, what the difference in the last few years of FEH's are? I am particularly interested in safey improvements. I am reluctant to spring for a new one having just bought a new Prius three years for full list.

 

I know 08 has the full side curtain airbags, & side front bags too (a big + for me with kids). 09 gets bigger engine and I believe RSC/ASC (anti roll over software) . I think edmunds, cars.com, ??? would be good research places to start. You may want heated seats (altho I don't think they get as hot as they could/should).

Good luck on your search! I used yahoo autos & ebay to try to track one down for myself.

 

I have read the 2010 Escape Hybrid will be available late in the summer 2009. This version could incorporate the changes made to the 2010 Fusion Hybrid which are significant. It may be something to think about prior to purchasing new or used.

As for safety features, one could obtain dual front-side and curtain airbags in all years of the Escape Hybrid. Anti-locking disc brake system is standard in all years except the 2009 which feature rear drums. It is likely the 2010 Escape Hybrid will again feature rear disc brakes because the Fusion Hybrid does. The RCS was mentioned in the previous post. It is possible to install aftermarket seat heaters in your Escape Hybrid. Send a PM and I will direct you to the source that is highly recommended.

 

You've got that backwards. The 2009 _does_ have ABS (real wheels are drums -- not disc, but it does have ABS). I think 09 was the first year to have them (maybe they were there in 08 but I didn't think so). The 2005 definitely did _not_ have ABS.

 

No, I think YOU have it wrong. The FEH have ABS. What they lacked until 2009 was rollover stability control (RSC).

My 2008 AWD window sticker specifically says "4 wheel anti lock brakes".

 

It's never a good idea to assert that something is a fact unless you are certain that it really is a fact.

In the 05 I can absolutely assure you there was no ABS, nor anything that could even remotely be confused as being ABS (having owned one up until a month ago and driven it through many winters). Also I talked to the engineers who designed it here in Dearborn and the topic of ABS came up -- along with a brief discussion on why they opted to not include it in that year (and speculation about whether they would add in in the future).

I currently own an '09 which I picked up last November. I specifically took it out to play with the ABS to see how it managed. The 09 definitely _does_ have ABS.

Hence "all years except the 2009" is incorrect -- so I definitely don't have it wrong. The only thing in question is which year which year did it actually show up.

 

[quote=tcampb01;202140]It's never a good idea to assert that something is a fact unless you are certain that it really is a fact.


Window sticker states 4 wheel anti-lock brakes. Case Closed.

 

I'm reading from the order guide of the '05 Escape Hybrid under Safety/Security and here is what it says:

* Four-wheel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)

* Personal Safety System with dual-stage driver and single-stage front passenger airbags with Occupant Classification Sensor for front passenger seat airbag

* Safety Package with Safety Canopy System and dual front-side airbags (optional)

* Latch System

* Belt-Minder system

* 3-point safety belts and adjustable head restraints in all 5 seating positions

So yes, the '05 FEH has ABS. Are you thinking this is RSC?

GaryG

 

Rather humerous, really, considering the posts following this statement from owners of 2005 models having ABS.

That, or Ford has some explaining to do on their window stickers.

 

I stand corrected.

I'm always _extremely_ careful with my words. I am annoyed by people who exaggerate or who jump to conclusions and then state their conclusion as a fact when they really have no valid basis to conclude it's a fact. And yet, there it is on the sticker and, btw, also in the 05 owners manual (yes I checked because I actually considered that the window sticker is just wrong) -- on page 207 where it discusses how the ABS is supposed to work.

BTW -- I'm not entirely certain the window sticker and owners manual is right (I'll explain why after you read all of this)

People who have never driven a car with ABS on snow or ice probably wont be able relate to this, but people who live in icy / snowy climates should relate quite easily. Steve lives in LA and he owns an '08. Gary owns an '05 but lives in Florida. If you've lived there the whole time and never taken your car into serious snow or ice then you'd probably never have a reason to suspect your car doesn't actually have ABS because you'd would not likely have been in any conditions that would cause ABS to engage (not unless you had to stand on the brakes to try to avoid an accident). But Bill lives in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania routinely gets a few decent winter storms and/or freezing-rain -- conditions that should make for slick driving. His car should *definitely* have engaged ABS -- probably numerous times through the winters. I'm extremely interested to know if Bill's car engages ABS.

It would be hard to be able to make it through a winter of snow storms and freezing rain / ice-storms, driving a car in these conditions, and have ABS _never_ kick in. My car has been through five such winters. And it's not just me -- my neighbor is a retired engineer who worked for Ford. He borrowed my car to pickup some furniture while I was out of town and on the night I arrived home, he drove it to pick me up from the airport; we were getting freezing rain at the time. The roads were treacherous, we witnessed multiple spin-outs (the sort of night when you slow to a crawl and look both ways before going through a green light knowing that if any cross-traffic approaches the intersection they'll be unable to stop for their red.) My car goes ice skating -- ABS doesn't kick in. On that particular night, my car locked up several times. While I've been through lots of snow storms and even took it out to snow-covered parking lots to test the 4WD (which works fine), that particular night was the slickest it had ever been in. If that couldn't trigger ABS, I don't know what it would take.

When ABS kicks in on a car it's pretty hard to miss. The break peddle vibrates and you feel it in your foot. The the vibration can be heard and felt throughout the car. The Brake/ABS light flashes on the instrument panel while ABS is pulsing the brakes. If it engages, you *definitely* notice it -- it's not like it could happen and you'd never notice it. Everyone who lives in a climate where they can't get through a winter without having to drive through a snowstorm or freezing rain will easily relate.

My 09 FEH has the ABS kick in quite easily... as does my 06 Prius, as did my last 4 cars before those. Some of these cars even kick in if I'm braking while driving over bumps -- even on otherwise dry roads (e.g. drive over some rough railroad tracks while braking and it's usually enough to make it kick on). The 05 FEH will _NOT_ kick in.

The car reports no problems, faults, diagnostic codes... it claims to be a completely happy car in perfect condition.

So what do you do when you have a car that you believe doesn't have ABS when everyone tells you that you have it?

I sold my '05 to my brother a month roughly a month ago. I called him and had him pull my window sticker out of the folder. To my astonishment, it also claims the car has ABS!

I called the dealer to ask them about this. If the car is supposed to have ABS, why wont it kick in -- in any conditions? The car shouldn't go ice-skating without even the slightest attempt to kick in ABS.

The dealer's response was (paraphrased) "If the car was reporting a fault in the system then we could bring it in and have it checked & repaired under warranty, but we have no way of testing the system and Ford probably wont cover this if the car isn't reporting a fault."

They went to say that in the absence of any fault codes they would just try to reproduce the problem, except reproducing an ABS problem would involve driving it in slick conditions (e.g. taking it to a snow-covered parking lot) and testing it. But this time of year there's no place to test it. They say there's really nothing a dealer would have in the shop to test the car. In the absence of being able to reproduce it with a simple test-drive, they'd have to get a lot more involved in testing the various components to try to locate the a fault and the work would be extensive enough that they wouldn't do this without someone paying for it. (Hence their comment that Ford isn't likely to reimburse it as a warranty claim if it can't be reproduced and there's no fault codes reported.)

He also said "maybe it's just less sensitive because it's a hybrid" (My '09 FEH is pretty sensitive -- maybe they substantially improved it over the years.)

So here's my question:

Now that I see the window sticker *claims* the car has ABS, have any of you who actually own a 2005 ever had the ABS engage on an '05? Under any conditions? If so, what were the circumstances (icy / snowy / wet pavement / etc.) and how easily did it engage?

Everyone who has driven my 05 on slick roads has noticed it lacks ABS in conditions where it definitely should have triggered (these are all people who own ABS-equipped cars and drive them in winter conditions and are well-acquainted with how ABS works and what it takes to trigger it). This car is totally unlike any ABS-equipped car I've ever owned... including other hybrids such as my '09 FEH.

If others here report that their '05 FEHs will engage ABS, I am extremely interested to know what it takes to get your cars to engage it.


Early on I mentioned that I'm not sure if the window sticker and owners manual is right. Let me get back to why. We went to the owners event and talked to the engineers. I was certain this topic of ABS on the FEH came up and they explained why it didn't have it, but my memory for details at an event that occurred four years ago isn't as good about such things. My other half has an amazing memory for such details -- so thinking that I'm imagining things, and without giving him the slightest hint as to why I was asking the question I thought I'd test his memory to see what he remembers.

So I asked him

Question: If I told you that our '05 FEH had ABS, would you believe me?

Answer: No

Question: Why not?

Answer: Well (a) it's never kicked in, but (b) because they told us [at the hybrid owners event] that it didn't have it.

Question: Are you sure you've never noticed it? Have you ever noticed it any OTHER car?

Answer: Sure, it rattles, vibrates, and makes noise. You can't miss it. No ours has never done that.

So *THAT* is why I asserted as a fact that the 05 FEH doesn't have it. Because I remember Mary Ann Wright discussing why the 05 didn't have it -- but since I didn't trust my own memory I decided to ask him and his recollection (and his memory is pretty ****ed good!) is exactly the same as mine. He also recalls that they told us it doesn't have it.

So with two of us at the event (and he doesn't know about this discussion thread to the contrary) remember that the engineers on the FEH team -- including Mary Ann Wright -- talking about why the 05 doesn't have ABS, coupled with the fact that our own FEH will _NOT_ engage ABS and others who have driven it (and just assumed it had it but were surprised to find it wouldn't engage) reporting the same thing, I'm now starting to seriously wonder whether the window sticker and owners manual are based on a lot of boiler-plate text and technically a misprint.

And that's the *other* reason why I am very interested to hear from other 05 FEH owners to find out if they've every *actually* witnessed their ABS system engaging.

If it's actually there, then either my system is defective, or there's a general software bug preventing it from engaging when it should, or it's so insensitive that it's not really effective.

Regards,
Tim