Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Check out this site that shows the FEH converted to a PHEV! They calim 140mpg city and 40mpg highway with the conversion! They also seem to have a Ranger EV conversion avalable and say they will be selling already converted '09 FEH next year.

www.LionEV.com

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

that seems awesome. has anyone ever tried this?

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

This is got to be similar to what Hybrid-Plus offers.
Your vehicle plus $32,000+ to convert into a PHEV.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

In a few years it probably will be awesome to "upgrade" our old hybrids to keep up with the new ones when they get the price down to, let's say $10k or so...

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

The same site talks about converting your FEH to a PHEV with existing battery pack. This would seem to be a reasonable idea that could net as much as a 15% improvement for me on my way to work. Has anyone looked into this? Lion EV seems to be promoting this but I can't seem to find where they are actually selling the charger. They have an (incomplete) installation guide here: http://www.lionev.com/DIY_Escape_PHEV_Hybrid.html

The theory seems like a good one. I often deplete my battery on my way home because I can drive in EV mode for at least the last mile or so. The trouble with that is, when I cold start the next morning or take off for another trip that same afternoon, the battery has to be charged back to 53%, which wastes gas. If you could start off with a battery that is charged to 60% or more, no fuel would be spent trying to charge the battery back up. I've also noticed for the first couple of minutes of driving on a cold start, I'm in EV mode anyway. That further depletes the battery and requires it to be charged back to 53% even if I didn't deplete it on the drive home. I looked for a thread on this subject but didn't find anything.

Here's the main question - It seems like it would be a fairly inexpensive conversion to just add a charger that would top off your existing battery. What I don't know is, would it work? Would the computer be able to deal with the strange condition of a fully charged battery upon cold start up? I'm sure there are other considerations as well.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

If you could start off with a battery that is charged to 60% or more....

If one could charge the hybrid battery overnight to 60% (SOC) or more, the vehicle would automatically burn off this excess charge until the SOC was lowered to 53%. FORD Software is designed this way to promote longitivity of the hybrid battery. The normal SOC range is 40-53%.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I've got the 4kwh Enginer kit (enginer.us) in my 2011 Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD. There can be some glitches but when it's working (like it is now) I'm getting 47.5 mpg with 70/30 city/highway driving. Cost is $3-4K with federal and many state tax incentives. I do some basic hypermiling. I'm sure the experts here could get phenomenal FE out of the kit.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Hi folks,
I was a bit surprised when I saw this post about LionEV. In the public interest, I feel obliged to post a message.
The message is, “caveat emptor.” I have been waiting since 2007 for a refund of $11,200.00 for product that was never delivered. Many others are in the same situation, except several of them lost a lot more than I.
Before you purchase anything from LionEV, Google Kenneth W Curry II. He is the founder and principle of LionEV, along with his wife, Kathy. He was convicted of fraud a few years ago. I learned today that he was released January 2010 and I am sad to see that he is now back in the EV business.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Wow! That's part of why I posted the question. It seemed fishy to me. I'm still a little baffled as to why a conversion is not on the market to do what I described. The cost would be minimal if it's just a charger and no need for an additional battery. As Bill mentioned, the system is engineered to maximize battery life. It seems to work as designed since batteries are pretty cheap (compared to new) on the salvage market. If demand was higher the prices would be high. Even at 60% or more I wouldn't think there would be a problem with battery life. Unexpected battery generated heat might be an issue though... I would love to learn more about how to do such a retrofit. Would someone please engineer and sell such a charger? It's all yours - Feel free to steal the idea and profit accordingly!

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

C'mon folks... The silence on this subject is deafening. I don't believe that I'm the only one to look into the idea of just adding a PHEV charger to a stock HEV. Anybody? I've written to several installers of PHEV systems - Only one response trying to sell me an expensive battery upgrade system. Even if you only increased mileage by 10-15%, there are all kinds of devices on the market for gas guzzlers (some at ridiculous prices) that net lower gains than that. If my own driving tests are any indication, 15% would be a pretty conservative estimate of what might be possible if you could charge the stock traction battery up as high as 80% for the start of your commute every day.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

As discussed here before, the Escape's generator is already a reasonably efficient charger. Most people do not have free electricity, so there is a cost and inconvenience to having a plug-in.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I'm very interested in this. I started looking at FEH's thinking I get an 05 with 130,000 miles assuming the battery was about shot, and then swap it out with a Lithium ion and some computer flash.

I found just the opposite. Stock batteries have great longevity and no ones really modifying and flashing...

I'm hoping for ANY way to up the initial charge, but I'm afraid if you leave on a cold start with the battery at 80%, the ECM will just burn off the excess charge while the ICE is running during the warm up strategy.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

To do what you want, you would have to "defeat" the Ford hybrid software that "burns off excess state of charge". The vehicles are designed to operate between 40-53% state of charge. The Ford hybrid software is not found on any Microsoft or Apple software. There have been a few third party vendors that have "defeated" the Ford hybrid software-Hybrid-Plus to name one but it is going to cost you something like $32,000.00 to do so. FYI Hybrid-Plus has merged and is now under another name.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

In my own driving tests, I've documented my trip to work. If I start out with a depleted battery at around 35-40% after a cold night, my mileage is rarely above 31 (measured with Scangauge) by the time I get to work. If I start out with a charge of 50% or above, mileage is typically 35-38mpg over the same trip route. This has been pretty consistent. That's what led me to the idea. I just received a very solid answer as to why this is not all that practical from an installer of Enginer systems. He's the only one who has bothered to attempt an answer of my question. Here is the quote of what he wrote:

"The Escape needs 350vdc to charge the battery. The car must be "READY"
to charge the HV battery. When the car is "Ready" it draws 1a (1/3kw)
just to keep the computers running. So you would need a 350v 5-10a
supply to charge the Escape HV battery. This would pull 25-30a from the
wall at 110vac. Do you have a 30a breaker on a dedicated plug in your
garage? [no but I could] In addition you would only get a mile or two out of that charge
compared to 15 miles or so out of a 4kwhr add on system. As you see
this is not simple. So the reason that you do not get an answer to this
question is that even though it may be possible it does not make sense
to do."

We've all seen how quickly the HV battery gets drained over a fairly short distance. This makes sense now that I see the math. It's a big pipe coming out of that battery. It's designed to pump out juice rather quickly if needed. Unfortunately it tends to drain quickly even when you are being conservative.

That said, it would still be better to have the battery at least charged to the neutral point after depleting it on the previous drive. D-Mac resolved that there's no need to charge the battery because the generator does that for you... True, but it's burning more fuel to do it, even during the regular warm up cycle. As evidenced by the results of my own tests. Given the above information, I don't think I'll be installing a 30amp circuit in my garage any time soon!

Incidentally... He also had some things to say about his experiences with installing Enginer products.

"... the Enginer Quality level is not up to my personal
standards. If you get an Enginer system installed you need to expect to
have to take it back to your installer 3 times during the first year to
have warranty work done on it."

He had more to say but in fairness to Enginer, this is one installer's experience and does not mean that all installers have the same experience. It sounds to me like there may be some quality issues but that Enginer stands behind their system for warrantee work.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

My experience is similar to the installer's: since you are on the bleeding edge, there will be some hiccups. However, Jack Chen has been excellent about warrantee work. I have had 2 charger go bad, one BMS get firmware updated, and one battery pack go bad. All have been replaced by Jack. In the past 3 weeks, I am now getting 30mpg highway (no change) and 50-60mpg city (HUGE change). My recommendation is that if you like to tinker and learn about the technology, it's great. If you want plug-and-play, wait.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

What the heck does any of this have to do with PHEV kits?

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Uh... Nothing.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I did my Altima using the Enginer kit. I have small issues with it, but the quality control seems to be getting better. I've already posted my story on this board.

I am getting about 6-10 mpg increase per tank. I have also seen at least one trip of about 20 miles where I doubled what the EPA says the car should get... 73 mpg... most was in town <40 mph.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Thanks for posting your experiences with the Enginer kit. After doing a lot of studying on their site, the 2KW kit is pretty much what I was looking for in my original question about being able to top off the stock traction battery. It's essentially a way to store a reasonably good charge, albeit with limited capacity. That kit would pretty much do what I was looking for I think. Did you install the 2KW kit or the 4KW? I agree with the previous post - If you want to tinker and learn this is a pretty good way to do it and test out the technology. I think I will probably wait until it matures a little more. Hopefully the costs will decrease and the options will increase. I'm sure that at some point in the not to distant future the "cool" factor will converge with a more reasonable return on investment. Particularly if gas prices keep climbing. I've maintained for some time (my friends think I'm nuts) that the best thing that could happen is for gas prices to reach even more ridiculous prices. This will force more rapid development of these technologies and the oil companies will cut their own throats by way of their own unbridled greed!

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I got the 4KW kit. I would suggest not getting the 2KW kit. I have no vested interest in Enginer and I believe that you would be severly disappointed with the smaller kit especially with the even heavier vehicle that you have. I probably need to adjust my voltage up so that I can take more advantage of the 4KW kit. Right now I get about 2 hours of assistance from it. That gives me enough to make a round trip from San Jose to San Francisco. Other people say that I am only pulling about 1/2 of what the system will supply, but I get the longer time. Does it balance out, probably. I could possibly get better mileage for shorter distances, such as my daily commute of 20 miles each way. Some of this is freeway and other part is city streets. I am able to get a solid 45 mpg with the assistance.

As far a waiting... you figure your pain point. Longer you wait, longer it takes to pay for itself.

I agree with you... the best thing that could happen is that gasoline in the US goes to similar prices as they pay in Europe. For those reasons and others.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

The higher gas prices go, the higher the oil companies profits.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

And if we can get the various subsidies removed....

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

amen.

I think one of the biggest subsidies I've heard of is a liability cap on drilling...
If there was a leak like the one in the gulf in the arctic it would cost many times more for the clean up, but the liability of the drilling /oil company is capped.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I was wondering if I could get an update from folks who have the Enginer kit installed (especially FEH), and how it has been working for them over a longer period of time (it's been more than a year since this topic been discussed, so I may assume there is a lot more data.
I am seriously contemplating getting one myself, however Enginer's web-site does not provide a lot of information on FEH, but I did found this link with some good information: http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Escape_PHEV_TechInfo

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

The short answer to your question is it did not perform satisfactorily and I would not buy it again. I spent the last 16 months trying to get it to perform to my satisfaction and have failed. Shortly after installation, I began to think that the equipment was not suitable for the FEH and assume it is more compatible with the Prius. Just so you know—I am no stranger to electric power. I have lived off-grid for more than a decade, and I have converted three Ford Electric Rangers from lead acid to LifePO4. All of these have HP 100ah cells and I am getting approximately 80+ miles per charge with them. This required extensive rewiring plus flashing the BCM and the process can be viewed at http://rvtechstop.com/ranger_ev.htm I do not use the Rangers for winter use because of the extreme cold, but mostly because of the tremendous use of salt on our roads. I wanted the Escape for winter because of 4X4 and OEM mpg is above 25mpg in winter. I had extra LiFEPO4 cells left over from the Ranger conversions so that made purchasing the Enginer a bit more economical. Further, I used a BMS that has performed extremely well in the Ranger EVs. This equipment gave me my first tip that the charger supplied with the Enginer kit was not charging to the high voltage cutoff point.
We spent months testing, adjusting, and replacing components. By the time, I was ready to give up…..guess what….my warranty had expired and I could not get a full refund! My advice is that if the equipment does not work to your satisfaction within the warranty period, return it while you can still get a refund. Don’t fall for the “let’s replace XXXX and see if that makes it better” tactic.
Since I could not return it for a full refund and was not comfortable selling it to someone else, I added another bank of cells which increased the capacity from 100ah to 200ah. Now I see an improvement in mpg from 30 to 35. I have never seen any of the outstanding mpg (over 40) that some have reported and I cannot maintain all-electric mode as Prius owners say they can. The only time it stays in all electric mode is when going under 30mph downhill with no pressure on the accelerator.
The added cell pack creates as many problems as it solves. The extra weight requires that air bags be installed in the rear springs so the ride height and alignment specs are maintained. I have never found an adequate way of securing the Enginer equipment and the battery packs to protect in the event of a rollover or collision. I will either resolve this issue before winter or the equipment will be removed. In addition to the modification to the rear springs, I installed the block heater and a 12v supply to power the battery heater, which is present in the 06 models.
If you still want to try this yourself, I strongly suggest that you get permission from Jack Chen to access the “Installer” section of the forum on the Enginer site. Lastly, there has always been some question in my mind that increasing performance by adding extra pack(s) may have an adverse effect on the OEM NiMH pack. This is a potential source of worry and only a suspicion. I can’t prove it but when you parallel battery packs in other applications, there is an immediate surge of power so the pack voltages are equal almost instantly. If that is the case with the NiMH pack, there is a possibility of shorter life. Ford achieves its outstanding durability by limiting the maximum charge and discharge of the OEM pack.
http://www.fordrangerev.com/REVolt/Shop_Manuals.html This is a link to where you can see the manuals for the Ford Ranger EV. Not that you are particularly interested in the Ranger, but reviewing these documents reveals Ford’s approach to safety and protection of occupants, vehicle, and battery pack in the case of a failure or accident.
There is much more I could say about my experience but I don’t want to take up space here. You can contact me directly if you want to know more.
Ed

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Addendum to Ed’s remarks:

The major drawback of the whole system is the loss of cargo space for such a meager increase in mileage. I compete in dog sports (agility and schutzhund) and I have to use smaller crates than my Dobermans need just to accommodate the system. By my calculations, the Engineer saves .02/gal on the cost of gasoline and that is not worth the major inconvenience. When you add the expense of the kit, you are way behind. This is exactly why Ford had the good sense to stop building FEH vehicles. They are too expensive for the value provided.
If Ed does not remove the Enginer from my car, I am afraid that I will be found dead with my hands wrapped around cables I tried to yank out of the car! OR….someone may find Ed dead with my hands wrapped around his neck!
Kidding aside, the system has not performed as expected and it is a lot of money just to tinker and experiment with technology. I have to add that when Ed drives the car, he can get 36-38mpg. I still get only 30. I do not hot-rod with fast take-offs (that could hurt my dogs) but neither do I drive below the speed limit to coax a little bit more mpg…I need a car to get to where I need to be and I am not interested in playing with Ed’s toys.

Ed’s wife

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Good post and I agree fully with you and ED.

I sold my '05 FEH because it ran terrible with E10 and had a drastic decrease in MPG. My '09 FEH runs excellent with E10, but I've never tried regular 87 octane to see if it is better. Just can't find 87 straight gas here in Florida anymore since the law changed.

Before I'd change my '09 FEH HV system, I'd just buy a new plug-in Lithium vehicle and not get away from a stock vehicle.

The next Fusion plug-in is a big improvement, but I like the height of the FEH for getting into and out of. I don't think the price will be appealing either.

For now, I can squeeze out 60mpg plus tanks in my '09 FEH with no mods, so why buy a other plug-in system at a much higher price. One big advantage to the '09 and newer FEH is 100% fuel-cut above 40mph and EV below 40mph. The '10 and newer FEH can go EV up to 44mph, but the battery is used to spin the engine above 40mph to protect the eCVT. I think that design is counter productive to battery use. I like a full electric Focus, but it's too expensive for such a small vehicle for me.

GaryG

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I will add some balance to this discussion.
2011 FEH (AWD) with 4kwh Enginer system installed Feb, 2011. This is definitely not a "plug and play" system. I have had to replace the converter, 3 battery packs, and the BMS since installation. This is a system that needs constant monitoring and tweaking. Having said that, I have been satisfied with my system and its impact for me. Of note, the 2010 and later FEH are a different animal than earlier models and are better suited to the Enginer kit. I was getting 32mpg prior to install and now, after install, average 40mpg for a 25% increase. With the tax credits available here in Colorado, I have now paid for my system with the savings in just 1.5 years. I am currently struggling with battery pack issues but that increase in mpg is taking into account the downtime associated with managing the system. I drive my FEH everywhere (including in 4wd-only trails at high altitude) and the impact on the storage is minimal for me. I would do it again but wish the system were more reliable in preventing damage to the battery cells. But I am also realistic and know that the decrease in cost is associated with manufacture in China with the resulting unreliability.
Brian

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Brian,
I don’t see much balance…looks to me like you have as many issues as we do.
In PA, tax credits are only available with a dealer installation. DIY people like me get no benefit from tax credits. We either pay the installer or forfeit the credit. In addition, my objection to using an installer was that, generally, I have more experience than they do…this includes my home alternative energy system, which was designed and implemented in 1989 and used seasonally in PA and totally off-grid in AZ during winter; EVs; the FEH; and further, I previously manufactured lead-acid batteries, under license from GM, for reproduction vintage DELCO batteries for Corvettes and Chevrolets.
IMO, the most critical shortage of Chinese technology for lithium was a suitable BMS system that actually worked. If you read Jack Chen’s forum, you can see that he suffered through this problem. It is not possible to determine SOC of a lithium cell by resting voltage. Instead, the cell manufacturer determines the high cutoff charge voltage and low cutoff discharge voltage, as well as the number of cycles available at various depth of discharge. Cells are usually rated at a number of cycles at 80% DOD (depth of discharge) at a specific C rating. So when a cell is rated for 2000 cycles, this means that it should provide between 5 and 10 years of use, depending on number of days used per week and depth of discharge for each use. It is not unreasonable to expect that cells should last from 5-10 years. The durability of the NIMH pack is because of the charge/discharge limitations Ford has set. A properly designed and functioning BMS must be able to determine when cells reach max charge voltage and when they fall to minimum voltage during discharge. In addition, it is very desirable to have some sort of equalizing feature. Equalizing can be from a top down or bottom up approach. There are several workable systems available. Some favor mounting the BMS on individual cells and others favor a centralized version. The latter is less popular, but it is my favorite. Each has advantages and disadvantages. I have experience with one BMS that I know works well. You can get more information on the website http://cleanpowerauto.com/ On the Enginer forums, there are others who have also successfully used the MiniBMS by CleanPowerAuto. My concern is that even when you get a working pack that provides service for the warranty period, it may not provide long-term service because of an inadequate BMS.
I would not use my FEH with an Enginer System off-road. I have not yet seen a mounting system that would survive a rollover event. Also, I was intending to do the suspension modification even before I added the extra cells. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible for those of us installing an after-market system to be certain that the installation can survive an accident.
For those who have installed the Enginer, I am interested in how they secured the equipment.
Lastly, I appreciate your comments about the later model Escapes. I will still try to flash the 06 computer to 10 parameters but I can’t begin that project until all of the other issues with the Enginer are resolved. This, of course, assumes that Carol is not successful with her threat.
Ed

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Ed,
I believe you are confusing my statement on balance with reliability rather than performance. While the other 2 comments opined there was a negligible increase in efficiency, my experience is the opposite. A 25% increase in mileage per gallon is what I had hoped for. If I cherry picked my driving like others in this forum, my efficiency would be more than doubled. I do agree that the key to the system is the BMS.
Brian

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Point taken.
I am appreciative of your performance data. However, if cells last for only two years, 25% is not a good deal. If they last for ten years, then it is a good deal. However, most people don't keep a car for 10 years..I keep mine for a minimum of 20. Just now getting ready to scrap my 86 S10 Blazer, which the 2006 FEH replaced for our winter car. My biggest disppointment with the FEH is that it is considerably more difficult to keep clean. I wash the undercarriage after every exposure and there are areas where road salt collects that are very hard to reach. Several points are prone to rust unless they are specially treated.
Ed

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Just curious, how do you wash your undercarriage?

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

With a power washer hooked up to warm water.
The S10 had easy access from either side and I was able to clean accumulated salt from frame rails, spings, & fender wells as well as other places I had identified as salt collectors. The Escape is lower to the ground and I have to lay down to have access. This spring when I put it up on a rack, I found there were areas where I did not get all the salt cake off.
As most of you know the tailgate and pillars around the rear door, collect debris and are prone to rust out. In the fall, I coat these areas liberally with Zep 2000 Heavy Duty Clear Penetrating Grease. I also spray all the fuel and brake lines. I then spray inside the doors and tilit the vehicle front to rear and side to side with jacks...I know I am done when some of the product comes out of the drip holes at the bottom of the door. This product does not dry--it remains sticky on into spring. We do not keep it in a heated garage because that accelerates corrosion in any areas I might have missed. We also block the radiator and use the block heater and battery warmer for winter use. The result is 28-30mpg in winter. The Enginer has no appreciable effect in winter.
The S10 was retired, not for rust but because it only gets 17mpg and less in 4X4. This means I have a significant overall gain with the OEM FEH.
Ed

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Oops..meant to say....With a syringe, I put new 30W oil inside doors, pillars for rear side doors, and the tailgate. After oil comes out the drip holes, I tilt the car to move the oil around the bottom edges.
I use the ZEP 2000 for brake & fuel lines and exposed areas of undercarriage.
Ed

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Somebody that goes through all that, you must have flushed your brake fluid by now, correct?

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Nope.

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

Folks ,,,, Did any one tried to use Deep Cycle AGM batteries in order to get extra miles , adding two AGMs (125 Amph each ) will give us around 3kwh - , and they weights less than 70Kg ,,, any technical information on this part would help me a lot on the installation which I'm going to do it myself ( no plug-in is required - the batteries should be charged from the vehicle directly like the normal batteries )

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

I'm not an engineer but I suspect the reason your plan won't work like you think it will is that the traction batteries on FEH are 300V on your 2009 (330V on earlier FEHs), while regular car batteries are 12V. I think you'll have to do a lot of engineering to get a reliable 300V power supply out of those 12V batteries.
Another factor is that the sealed lead-acid AGM batteries have different charging/discharging characteristics than the hybrid's traction batteries so you'd have to figure out how to get two different electrical systems to work simultaneously.
Of course golf carts have used 12v lead acid batteries for years, maybe you're thinking to convert a FEH into a BEV?

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

the kit they are referencing uses a convertor to boost to the required 330v.

My experience shows decent increase in fuel milage, 40 mpg. the bms worked for low voltage cutoff and the charger took care of high voltage.
The main issue was balancing the cells which wasn't adequately addressed and which I would do manually. My commute was 8 mile each way enough to warm up the vehicle and attain EV. Over 30 mph was not possible unless extremly light load then pehaps 35.
As for mounting, I never did that but one could access the nounting bolts on the factory battery and add straps if I recall.
I think the main issue in this application was the load placed on the batteries due to the weight of the car and the upconverting to 330v.
probably better suited to the prius.
I have since trade my escape and am driving a 2001 Honda Insight I picked up cheap with a bad battery I was able to rebalance. 50-60 mpg
albeit 1/10 the room of the escape, alas no dog room!

Re: Escape Hybrid PHEV kit?
 

The $2000+ Enginer kit used an assembly of Li-on batteries, not 12V lead-acid AGM batteries boosted to 330V.
But I see now that Enginer's website no longer lists a FEH application anyway so the market for aftermarket FEH PHEV kits is probably dead. Guess we'll be enjoying the new Ford C-Max Energi or other new PHEVs like the Mitsubishi Outlander instead.