Pat and Glenn

My thoughts on ethanol is it is something to cut the quality of gas like a drug dealer cuts his drugs to make more money. It takes more and cost more to get high and it takes more and cost more to go further with ethanol gas mix. We're addicted like GB says, and we will pay till we get that fix.

If you trust the EPA, fine, I DON'T. The fact is, the Ford Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual states fuel quality (% alcohol or oxygenates) will change the operating conditions of the engine.

Most of you don't get mileage like I get year round and won't see the drastic changes I see with ethanol. What the hell do I need winter gas in So FL? If my mileage is going to be cut by 10-15%, cut my gas price by 10-15%. In other words, the EPA can take that corn cob and sugar cane and put it where the sun don't shine.

GaryG

 

I doubt race gas (unleaded versions, of course!) and aviation gas have ethanol.

 

WHY are you buying SPOT MARKET GAS? There is a good possibillity that Walmart/Sams bought e10 summer blend at a discount. When you buy off brand fuel you DO NOT KNOW what btu, refinerer or additives you are going to get. I thionk Bwilson (or whatever his handle is) Did a fe test on several major brands of fuel and found Shell to be one of the best for fe and yes there are differences between brands.

 

Mark, I really don't see how doing a test on FE with different brands of gas is possible in our FEH/MMH. If I did a test with Shell, and then a test with a fuel containing ethanol, the effects of the ethanol would screw-up any test after for at least three refills. Ethanol screws up the long term air/fuel ratio maps in KAM, so the maps would have to get back to normal for another test.

One of the reason I stay away from Shell and some of the other name brands is because they claim their gas has high detergents. It is my understanding these detergents are alcohol based to keep valves and injectors clean. I feel I want no alcohol and better combustion and mileage, because our injectors are self-cleaning. Shell claims their V power premium has 5 times as much detergents that the EPA requires in other fuels.

Most of our fuel around here comes from Port Everglades and this is the first time Walmart/Sams has added ethanol. I've gotten as much as 53mpg tanks mixing cheep straight 87 octane gas. The brands I use are BP, Racetrack, Walmart and SAMS Club most of the time. Citgo I will not buy because I've heard they cut everything they sell from South America.

GaryG

 

Perhaps the ethanol's intended to increase burn control, especially considering its safety and availability versus other possible octane-enhancing additives.

My personal choice is to run Top Tier standard fuel. It's available just about everywhere. The cheaper fuel (i.e. no-name stations and cheap-o outlets like Safeway, Walmart etc) don't usually meet Top Tier standards.

www.toptiergas.com

 

The only difference between brands is the additives one adds after it reaches it's destination. They all travel through the same US pipe distribution system. The gas Shell takes out in Iowa may have been put in the system in Texas by Citgo.

 

They may be alcohol based BUT the concentrations are so small for the detergents that with respects to fe it is less than insignificant. We are talking about a quart of additive in 10,000 gallons. I run only shell. I have taken engines apart that run shell and they are among the cleanest induction system I have EVER seen. As far as injectors go they may be self cleaning but the induction system is not, and it gets gummed up with cheap fuel, been cleaning them up for the last 5 years.

Yes BUT they have a device like a basket ball that they put in the pipeline that separates the fuels, then they add the additives at the terminal when they pump it into the holding tank. So Shell fuel is refined by Shell, not Citgo or BP.

 

The "pig" goes through to clean and inspect the lines not to separate the fuels. They allow mixing between different grades of gasoline. Also companies don't always pull out the fuel they put in just a fuel with the same specs as the one they added.

 

One of the reason I own my FEH is gas mileage. I would know if Shell or any other brand gas performs better because I use them all. When I need gas and there is no other choice but paying 10-20 cents more per gallon for Shell, I fill up on Shell. It's true, if there is no ethanol added, I don't see any difference in mileage. If cheap gas caused a drop in mileage, I wouldn't buy cheap gas. I don't generally buy gas at an old station with old storage tanks. Same thing with marine gas stations, I don't get my gas there either for my boat.

If I want my gas to last over a longer period of time and run cleaner, I buy premium. I use it in my boat and lawn equipment for that reason. The alcohol additives reduce the moisture problems in premium gas, but I don't need premium and I don't have gas stay in my tank for moisture build-up. The only way I've found to clean a carb is take it apart and clean it. Gas additives are fine for the tank, but do nothing to already build-up deposits in the intake system, fuel injectors or valves IMO.

GaryG

 

At what point would you buy 100% made in America ethanol vs. Iraqi gasoline, Gary? If it was half the price of gasoline and made by a mid-west farmer would you buy it? Or are you really that ANTI-AMERICAN?

This week, driving through North Platte Nebraska, ( or was it Grand Island, I forget... It was along I80 in middle Nebraska )

Regular 87 Octane Gas: $3.469
Mid-Grade 89 Octane Gas: $3.539
E10 Mid-Grade 89 Octane $3.079
E85 ( forgot the Octane ) $2.299

GaryG, what did you pay for gas this week?
West Palm Beach, regular averaged about $3.229.
E10 Regular, Denver, $2.849

Based on a 14 gallon fill up, pure gas costs about $6. more.
This is about 2 gallons worth, for free if you buy E10.
You break even in cost, even if ethanol lowers FE by 15%.

The Ford Escape is super sensitive to ethanol, and I think it lowers FE by 10% ( 5 MPG for Gary, 3 MPG for most folks ). However, that 15% cost savings cuts FE by about 3% in MOST non-hybrid cars.
-John

Don't forget ethanol is super clean and CARBON NEGATIVE. The process of producing ethanol removes more CO2 from the atmosphere than burning the ethanol puts back in...