FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Has anyone had their oil changed by the dealership or other oil change places? I'm interested in finding out what they charge.

I changed my oil myself the other day and here is a breakdown of my cost.

Oil Filter - List price $11.47 paid $6.71
O-Ring - List $9.13 paid $5.34
Motorcraft 930-A 5-20W = $3.00 qt Total 15.00

Total List - $35.60 plus tax My Discount = $27.25 plus tax

Tools needed - 13mm wrench, 6mm allan wrench, Small oil filter wrench.

Only had 6,627 miles on my FEH but didn't feel I wanted to go to 10,000 on my first oil change.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I paid 28 dollars at the Ford dealer who didn't have the filter the first time. Also, I took 5 quarts of the 15W-20 Motorcraft Semi-Synthetic Oil with me. They only had Valvoline which doesn't make an oil that has the WSS-M2C930-A spec. Mobil makes one and so does Castrol but not Valvoline. The service advisor told me not to worry about it, if the engine failed it would be under warranty. I brought my own oil anyway. They didn't seem to like that but they used it anyway. The oil change would have been 19.98 after rebate if I would have used the Valvoline but since I brought my own oil they were nice enough to charge me $28 dollars instead. I should have told them to throw the Valvoline in the trunk and let me get the rebate but I think they were a little miffed about me bringing my own oil.

I only had about 3000 miles on the vehicle but I changed the oil early to get the initial new engine "break in filings" out. I paid a lot for this thing so I would like it to last awhile.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Jeft, this is a concern of mine! Can tech's at the dealerships change oil to the specs. Is the FEH ahead of their knowledge? Maybe we can use 15-20W oil. Maybe not! I'm not sure. It calls for 5-20W 930-A oil, does Motorcraft 15-20W meet that standard? I don't think so myself.

My concern is the amount of starts the FEH makes during operation. Ford has been calling for 5-20W only for many years, I don't understand, but I use it .

So what your telling me is you paid $28 for labor. No filter, no O-Ring, and no oil.

Has anyone else had their oil changed by others?

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I did mine myself at about 4,000 miles. It is a pretty easy change once you have the parts (other than the filter can needing major muscle to twist off without the small filter wrench - I'll have it next time). Because the filter is in front and points straight down, it was a nice, clean job.

I needed two trips to the dealer for the parts. They didn't have the filter element so they ordered it. The parts man said the o-ring would come with it, it doesn't so I had to order it and come back again. I wonder what they would have done if I brought it in for the oil change - keep it overnight?

Hopefully the '06 and the '05 use the same element and o-ring so I can just get a supply of them.

I usually get the Motorcraft 5W-20 at Autozone. Think I paid $2.29 a quart last time.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

You got that filter off and on without a filter wrench? It was hard for me with a wrench. That O-ring makes it hard to turn even after you break it lose. I had to use the filter wrench to screw it back on also. You may want to get a wrench and see if you got the filter cap on all the way. If you didn't, oil maybe bypassing the filter if it isn't sealed inside.

Walmart did sell motorcraft 5-20W for about $1.86 but it wasn't the new 930-A (GF-4) spec. Walmart stopped selling Motorcraft around here about 6 months ago. Thanks for the tip on Autozone, I'll ckeck if there's one around here.

I knew when I got my FEH in Feb. to order the parts early. They had 12 filters (a case) in stock. I bought 2 filters and had to order 2 O-rings. At that time, they didn't have any 930-A oil. I found some at the Dealership a week ago. BTW, the air filter list for over $50.

At least Ford located the oil filter right for a change. The drain plug doesn't drain the oil completely until you break the filter cap lose and make a few turns. At least you can drain the oil from the filter before you remove it.

Good point about leaving your FEH overnight for an oil and filter change. You seen they didn't have the parts in stock. A concern I would have is they would charge you for an O-ring and filter and not replace it. I suggest to all here that take the FEH someplace to change the oil, verify they stock the parts or have them order them before you take it in.

Anyone else have a price or problem on getting the oil and filter changed?

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

The Motorcraft Oil I had DID have the 930-A spec that was in the manaul. It seemed to be pretty thin. I paid about 2.29 at Advance autoparts for it. The dealer did have the oil filter and O-ring this time. So I paid 28 dollars for labor, o-ring and filter minus the oil.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Jeff, I misunderstood you the first reply. That is a better price than I thought they would charge. The list price of the O-ring and filter is $20.60 and most oil change places charge for oil and filter disposal. You got a great deal I think.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

It was a struggle but, yeah, I got that sucker off without a wrench. My secret is to swear a lot...getting it back on wasn't too bad since I oiled the hell out of the o-ring. I have the correct wrench now anyway for next time.

Walmart quit selling Motorcraft stuff after Ford quit selling to them. At least that's what I read on another board. Don't remember the whole story.

I had to get my new '06 inspected today so while I waited I went to the parts department. The '05 and '06 filter is the same part thankfully. The funny thing is they had the filter but not the o-ring. I asked them if they changed the o-ring with every oil change like the book says and I got the old blank stare. That answered my question. Otherwise, wouldn't they keep a like number of elements and o-rings in stock?

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Just one last correction to my first reply. It was Motorcraft 5W-20 semi-synthetic with the WSS-M2C930-A spec not 15W-20.

:embarass: Some what off oil change subject

I'd like to try something thinner like Mobil 0w-20 to see what that would do to my mileage. But so far I can't find anything else to meet that Ford spec. I would hate to see the 0w-20 go shooting through my gaskets.:omg:

Used to that was one of the main advantages to running synthetic was getting to run something thinner while still getting the same protection. I had a 260e that called for 20w-50 or 5w-40 synthetic. Switching to the synthetic pushed me up from 22 mpg to about 25 mpg plus eliminated the extreme cold weather valve tap when I started it in the winter after it had been sitting outside all night at work. Cold oil takes a while to pump you know. But the difference between the two oils in sub-freezing tempatures was like comparing maple syrup to Coca-Cola. Don't know if there is as much benefit today as there used to be because there are a lot of newer cars that specify thinner regular oil.

That may be one of the reasons this Escape of mine always wants to warm up before it shuts down to run in electric only mode. A 200 mS start specification could be a little extreme with cold syrupy oil. I think the other reason might be to keep the catalytic convertor hot to minimize the other than CO2 emissions.


:) Back on subject. Honest...

Has anybody every been to a dealership where they didn't at least have the oil filter for the cars the sell??? I mean they shipped out all kinds of posters and brochures for the hybrid... Why not a few spare oil filters, O-rings and maybe a case of oil to celebrate the launch of a vehicle Ford could actually sell at Full Sticker? I mean a lot of Ford vehicles like the F-150 and the Explorer seem to be going for well below invoice.

Hope I don't need a transaxle somtime soon. Because according to the shop manuals the LRU (Lowest Replacable Unit) for the motor/generator/CVT/PTO is that transaxle.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Ray, the fact is, I had to use a rag between the wrench and the oil filter cap to grip it so it wouldn't slip. I'm not a wimp by any means but my hat is off to you for determination.

So your buying another FEH. I would do the same if I had the money. My son is at MIT and lives at Theta Chi on Beacon St. in Boston near you. I hope to buy him one for graduation in two years, we'll see.

One other point I think is worth posting is that at 6,627 miles, my oil level was at the min. mark. I'm use to changing the oil at 3,000 miles or even 4,000 or 5,000 miles when I don't have the time. For those that wait 10,000 miles, you may be very low on oil. After putting in 4 1/2 qts, I was between max. and min., I used oil. This means you may need to add the same oil between oil changes. I wouldn't mix oil in my FEH so you may want to keep some original oil on hand.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I had mine done about a month ago when they had a $33 special that checked everything and filled all fluids and rotated tires. They tried to charge me $20 extra because they said the hybrif filter was more but I pointed out there was no exception on their coupon. I have purchased the Ford oil filter and it was only about $9. Get your checkbook ready when you have to replace the air filter - $55.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Jeff, I'm glad you cleared that up on the 15-20W and the 5-20W. I heard that Mobil 1 is not making the 0-20W anymore, I don't know for sure.

My 2002 Explorer uses 5-20W with the old spec. (GF-3) oil. I tried pennzoil 5-20W non syn. oil and got better gas mileage. I didn't want to use it in my FEH because of the amount of starts it makes. Not sure their is an additive to coat parts for the increased starts.

The parts man where I bought the 930-A oil was trying to sell me a Motorcraft full 5-20W syn. oil. From what I understand, that oil just is cleaner and last longer, not better MPG. That would explain why I got better MPG with real oil than the syn. mix.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Yeah, I think the only time synthetic MIGHT help your mileage is if it is thinner than the regular dino juice. Otherwise, I doubt if there would be any difference at all. One thing is for sure if it did make a difference with the Hybrid/Nav option you would know it pretty quick.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Gary - I don't feel bad anymore about how hard it was to get the filter off. For a long time I thought I was turning it backward or something. Luckily it has an arrow on it showing which way to turn to remove. Not sure if it was determination or desparation that got it off.....

I am on Beacon Street every day so I know where your son's place is. Wild partys there every night...(just kidding about that).

Already got the second one. Gave the "old one" to the wife. Can't wait to see how the mileage is for her - she drives like an old lady but not sure how she'll comprehend the whole regen braking, etc. Maybe it will be a wash.

Ray

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

This is the first time I've heard of any oil consumption problems in FEH. I have 9500 miles on mine and it's not consumed a drop.

As to OCI (Oil Change Interval) I think the 10K interval is reasonable given the reduced amount of idling (always hardest on an engine) the FEH does. Modern motor oil has come a LONG way since the old 3000 mile recommendations were the rule...even my 1995 Volvo wagon had a 10K service interval.

For mine I'm going to use Mobil 1 5w20 (was finally able to locate some at the local AutoZone) which does meet the 930-A spec. Also going to use the Wix filter, which costs half what the Motorcraft one runs and includes both o-rings.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Thanks for the tip on the Wix filter and o-ring kit. I paid $12.44 each for two filters yesterday without either o-ring. What did the Wix kit cost? How does the quality look?

Thanks

on edit: picked up the big o-rings today that the dealer ordered.....$10 EACH. Here I come Wix...

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

[Q problems in FEH. I have 9500 miles on mine and it's not consumed a dUOTE=stevewa]This is the first time I've heard of any oil consumptionrop.

I really don't think thats any big deal of oil consumption with a drop in 6,600 miles. I would be very concerned if the stick showed max. after I put 4 1/2 qts in but it was in the middle of max. and min. When I checked it before the change, it was at min.. That would be less than a qt I would think during break-in and say 5,000 miles. Not that bad.

My point was that with the FEH, your going three times as many miles before normal Ford oil changes. Most of the normal Fords would not drop much in 3,000 miles that you would notice.

Your FEH has gone 9,500 miles without using a drop. I can't explain why but only say my FEH was either not full from the start or used that oil. I don't think I have an oil consumption problem at this point. It may be the driving habits, weather condition etc. that make the difference. Alot can happen in 10,000 miles and I would be ready to add oil during that time.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

In my experience a leak is much more likely than burning oil...but I know Ford does not consider oil consumption a problem until it hits something on the order of 1 quart per 1000 miles.

The Wix filter is part number 57203. The quality appears good (Wix is one of the better aftermarket filter makers and is the supplier of filters to Ford in the Canadian market). This particular filter is also used on the 2.3L engines in the Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 cars, so unlike the air filter at least we have some choices.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Thought I'd respond back on this thread about oil consumption at my first oil change. STEVEWA pointed out that he had 9,500 miles on his FEH and had not used a drop in his while my FEH was on "min" when I check it before the oil change.

I now have about 12,000 miles on FEH and ready to change the oil again. I just checked it and it looks like it has not used a drop from the 6,100 change. I don't think the FEH used the oil during break-in but think I was shorted from the factory at this point.

At any case, I'm pleased now. Even better with the added miles, the FEH goes into EV mode easier and I can set the cruise at 35mph till the battery gives out. Thats about a three mph improvement from the beginning.

Only problems is the lock up in the ICE mode where I have to stop for about 30 seconds for the engine to shut down into EV mode. The other problem is the auto locks quit working a few months ago which needs to be repaired by the dealer. I tried to reset it but got no responce.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I should probably update...I did have the oil changed at 10K and used Mobil 1 5w20. I had brought my Wix filter to the dealer in case they didn't have the o-rings in stock. They did in fact have them, but got confused and used my Wix filter instead of a Ford one. They gave me a new Ford filter and large o-ring in compensation since the first oil change was comped anyway.

They also put all 5 quarts of oil in the sump, overfilling well above the fill line on the dipstick (excuse me, oil level indicator). So, I decided to put the Motorcraft filter in, figuring I'd drain off enough oil in the process to bring the fill level right to the upper mark. Worked out pretty well...and no signs of any oil consumption after about 3k miles.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

More good information, thanks all. As noted on another thread at the 5k marked I changed my own on the 07 FEH. Now I am bit concerned because I used Valvo 5w-20. I'll pay more attention to the spec now and opt for something else, but I have used Valvo in all my Blue Ovals for so long, it has become a habit.
On the AF, I won't go to Ford. Just before I found you guys, I noticed an online retailer with the K&N filter for $38. Have put the K&N in my daughter's '05 Stang and noticed small improvement in mileage. So at 10k, I'll likely do the same with FEH.
What was the size of that filter wrench? The wife and daughters have requested that there be no repeat performance of the swearing concert that occurred while changing the oil last time.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Be sure to double check before you buy the K&N filter...there has been some confusion and as far as I know the air filter for the FEH is unique. Also note the fine print in your owner's manual that no filter except the Motorcraft will fulfill the requirements of the warranty, blah blah blah.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

You want to read this short thread (from a quick search on "oil change"): https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...&highlight=oil

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I have a K&N in my 2005 FEH. The K&N website lists the part for 2006 & 2007 but I think it was just a typo that they forgot about 2005! :(

Mine was a perfect match.

During the first 30 miles my instant MPG meter was jumping all over the place, like 40 MPG to 20 MPG to 40 MPG, I guess from the new air pressure and flow.
After 30 miles of highway ( so 30 minutes later ) the sensors adjusted and everything was back to normal... only better!

Now I can't prove if it is the K&N or just the switch from dirty to clean, but I'm getting a little better MPG now than just before, in similar weather.
The K&N part # is 33-2347

BTW it is against the law for any auto manufacturer to void an engine warranty for use of after market parts that meet or exceed the original.
The K&N is for street legal use, ( not an off-road part or anything ) and does meet or beat all Ford specs.

As for oil changes, after 3 filter changes, my hex ( allen ) filter drain plug is stripped ( round hole vs. hex ). So for my recent change I just left it in and unscrewed the whole filter can intact. It was no messier than any other oil change I've done in 20 years, and the 3 times it worked, I didn't find the drain hole that helpfull anyway!

-John

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

glennb,
That link was informative and hilarious as well. Thanks for the info and the laughs!
gpsman1,
Great news on the K&N. I'll know what to expect and not get freaked out!

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

That would be the Moss-Magnuson act.

The key is do they meet the Ford specs. If the Ford spec calls for a paper filter, there is no way for a K&N filter to meet the spec.

I'm still skeptical about K&N, they make some rather extravagant claims that remind me of the Monster Cable people. I also know that if the filter is not properly serviced (i.e. just the right amount of oil) you can end up with a big mess in your intake.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I would assume that (even in a court of law) the intake air filter specification should be confined to something technical related to engine performance....such as Mass Air Flow or Minimum Particle Size filtered, etc. Not the material, or the color of a fluid, or something else irrelevant.

Intake filter technology is more advanced than the $2.50 filters they sell for $12 or more at the OEMs. K&Ns are engineered well and are not that difficult to maintain....but they are not for everyone.:D

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I completely agree that SHOULD be the way a spec is written and a law is applied.... but I remember reading an article somewhere about how we are all running around with catalytic converters that cost hundreds of dollars because they are required by law.... even though there are ways to produce engines that have as good or better emmisions without them. But unfortunately the law wasn't written to require a certain emission profile, it requires catalytic converters.

Similarly Ford can likely write a spec saying they require a paper filter.... even if something else could do the same job.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

So, I stumbled upon this thread, glossed over all of the technical talk that I don't understand, and thought I would ask my non-technical question anyway:

At the dealer when we bought the car- the service tech told us not to get the oil changed at 3k miles or 10k miles, but to go by the dash read out that says __% until oil change needed.
Do you think it is safe to rely on this?

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

June:

As I understand it the dash read out that gives a percentage basically just counts down to 10,000 miles. In other words, when I was at 2,000 miles it said 80% and when I was at 5,000 miles it said 50%.

It will never hurt to change your oil more often than is recommended. Remember to reset your dash read-out percentage when it's done.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I haven't seen where anyone has found a reliable reference that says the "% until oil change" message is anything but a 10,000 mile counter.

In otherwords, take your FEH in for its 10,000 mile service and be sure they change the oil and reset the message. Brady is right, changing the oil more frequently than the manufacturer's recommended interval has proven to make engines last longer - although at a $$ and environmental cost.

I am changing my oil and filter every 5000.:D

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Is there data that shows this is true for hybrids, or are you repeating 'conventional wisdom'? I'm sure Ford dealers would be happier if everyone changed the oil in their FEHs 2x as often as Ford recommends. The other thing to think about is why would Ford want to shortchange their customer's maintenance intervals (resulting in more warranty liability) and its own dealer network?

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

There is no reason in the universe that Ford or its dealers would recommend a longer interval than is necessary. If anything, they are going to give a shorter interval. As Don said, extending the interval would undoubtedly set them up for more warranty claims and cost them money. And more importantly, longer intervals mean fewer oil changes and less $$$$ for the dealers' service departments.

I changed my oil at 10,000 miles. It was pretty dark at the time. I replaced it with Mobil 1 full synthetic. I'll check it out at 15,000 and play it by eye....if the oil looks good I'll run it to 20,000.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

One thing to remember with these things is that in reality (I know I've said this in other threads)... mileage has little to do with the oil breakdown.... REALLY its the number of hours the engine has run (along with how many revolutions its turned and such). A normal car is set at 3,000 or 6,000 because the odometer only accounts for the time the car is moving... a large percentage of the time during idle the engine turns, and the odometer does nothing. They undershoot intentionally.

On a hybrid... the engine shuts off, so the odometer is a better measure of oil use.

It does restart more often, which some will say is hard on the engine and its oil.... but really starting is hard on a engine because the oil is down in the oilpan, the engine is cold, and the mixture is rich... On a hybrid during its restarts the oil is hot, well distributed, and the mixture doesn't need to be rich because the engine is already warmed up.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Thanks for your replies!

So, would the fact that I drive atleast 50% time in stop and go traffic on the highway mean that I should change it before 10k miles? I do often go from hybrid drive to electric drive to idle and back many times throughout my commute.

I guess I could just pull out the dipstick and check the color of the oil and judge from there...

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I'll be with good quality oil, everyone would be fine at 10,000 just like the manufacturer recommends. Your dealer, and quick oil change shop is going to say "thats not often enough" because they want you in more often so they can make money and HOPEFULLY find something else to fix for even more profit.

You are supposed to rotate the tires every 5,000 however. So if you want to figure that you might as well have the oil swapped (because it won't do any harm to the engine to do so) while the tires are rotated.... more power to you.

Checking the dipstick isn't bad idea I think. I personally don't wait until the oil looks bad... I'll change it on schedule. But if the oil looks dark early I'll move up the oil change. That does seem to happen more in the winter (either because EV mode is less accessable, the engine is colder, it runs on rich cycle longer, etc.) I'll admit in the winter I tend to lean toward the 5,000 mile oil change myself.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

I don't think the conventional idea that starts are hard on an engine necessarily works for hybrids.

The idea that the engine start/stops are "hard" on the engine and it's oil is based on the assumption of a conventional engine and that when the engine is switched off it'll probably be left off for hours, overnight, or even days. This extended rest period means that everything that was nicely coated in oil is allowed to drain down. When restarting, parts slide against parts with just a minimal amount of oil because it hasn't had a chance to recoat everything in those first handful of revolutions.

Hybrid stop/starts are different because the engine will only be off for seconds or minutes at most -- but not hours. The oil doesn't have a chance to drain down.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

To the inexperienced eye....it might be difficult to make an accurate decision based on the color/appearance on the dipstick.

You might need to build a mental database about what the oil should look like after a certain amount of viscosity breakdown (mileage)....over a few oil changes, then you would be a better judge as to whether it was time to change or not. You might just be guessing when you look at the dipstick in this car because it is new (and new to you).

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

There are firms that will take a sample of your oil and analyze it...I have no idea what the fees for analysis are. However I do know that oil color is not necessarily a predictor of oil life.

Re: FEH OIL CHANGE
 

Yeah....I agree. Thats why I said I go with the manufacturers recommendation and in between that interval if I look at the dipstick and it looks really dark and ugly.... i'll move it up. Its not terribly reliable to just look at the oil so I at least would change it to the manf. recs.