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Xcel, "Tbaleno takes the gloves off" helps be understand the objective better so let me state what I think the objective is for everyone and you correct me if I'm off. It seems our FEH group and I have been missing the boat on getting excellent FE (fuel efficiency) even in cold weather. Again, thank you for coming to our group and helping us understand what we are missing here. Not everyone in our group cares to push FE to the limits as someone like yourself but clearly many want and can improve their FE by understanding the principals you are bringing to the table here for us. For me, I didn't see the real value of "Pulse and Glide" (P&G) untill I felt it shifting out of "D" into "N". Now that some of us see that value, your trying to get me to conduct test to find how to accelerate to a speed the most FE way. This is similar to my primitive style of EV driving/ ICE recharging and repeat but allows for a higher range of speed for highway use also.

The remaining objective is to look at the values of acceleration (Pulse) and determine where the repeat process will give the best FE while keeping the SoC (battery level) at a level that regenerative charging by the ICE is at a point acceptable for FE and maintained in a repeated process.

For those here to understand, the lower the battery level gets, it sucks more energy faster while recharging. This causes the generator to work harder and causes the ICE to burn much more fuel turning the generator. After xcel first told me about this a month or so ago, I started using the fake shift to pump up the battery to try to take the load off the ICE to increase FE. Most of you don't need this because you don't drain the battery using EV driving like I do. Remember, each time you let off the accelerator, the FEH regenerative braking system shoots a nice charge via the generator to the battery as seen on the Assist/charging needle. The battery level is only shown on the Energy Screen which many did not get. If we determine here a good combination of climbing up to speed and gliding down to an acceptable speed in "N" (key off for some of us who dare), those without the battery level can still benifit with P&G.

Xcel, clearly the fake shift can benifit some in P&G to bring the SoC up. Has this been used with Honda or Toyota hybrids or is this even a option for them? Is there a gauge to determine the charging effect on the other hybrids?

I'll try to do some test today on my routes. Let me know if I'm on track here please.

GaryG

 

Xcel, the only test that I can perform is the last one because assist kicks in (must be the wieght) with less than 24 mpg acceleration from 33-43mph. Going EV just a block runs 42mpg to .2 miles I get 55mpg readings at 37mph EV.

Its hard to get any testing under 20mph because it goes EV on me all the time. Once I get below 30mph now with no pedal, it been doing this. Even at 35mph with no pedal its been dropping to EV on occasion and no double tap needed. So I tried to accelerate hard to get ICE on and do a rolling 0-33mph test without assist and it ranged form 10.9 to 16mpg readings (may have got a little assist but I did my best). Here are some readings I got while trying to keep out of assist.

10-20mph - reading 13mpg

20-33mph - reading 15mpg

10-15mph - reading 7.3mpg

20-25mph - reading 12.4mpg

20-30mph - reading 18.3 mpg

These are reading I got while some don't add up, it may be because I got some assist but I tried to accelerate as fast as posible without assist.

Where would you like me to go from here? No problem with more test.

GaryG

 

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Maybe I'm missing some of the point, or missing something else, but is it not possible to get some of the data at the lower speeds by forcing the ICE on, rather than trying to hope it doesn't go into EV?

Now this is the part I'm unclear about, I know turning on the A/C effects the FE, so that wouldn't be the way to do it, but with the defrost on, the ICE is forced on, but what is the impact of the defrost being on in terms of FE? If the hit from the defrost isn't too much, you could probably get some at least initial numbers for the low speed tests.

Now if it drastically effects the FE, then there wouldn't be any benefit in doing this, but I'm not sure if anyone has any numbers to support it.

jeff.

 

Jeff, the defroster runs the compressor also and it would do the same for FE. When I tried the a/c it started and as soon as I turned it off, the ICE stopped also. The rolling start was the only way I could reset the gauge. This is almost funny because sometimes I can't get the ICE to shut down.

I think this is the only testing being done because I have one of the first scangauges for the hybrid. I would love other people to report data to xcel so we all would get a better idea on the P&G for the FEH. If any of you have the nav computer, I found out yesterday it is very close, almost exact if you compare it to the scangauge readings to do this same test. Here's what I mean. If you reset the scangauge at a stop in EV, and also reset the 15 min average at the same time, taking off will have both gauges reading the same mpg averages. So guess what, you can run the test also with the nav computer. After 5 miles they were reading within .5 mpg averages.

GaryG

 

I'm getting a scanguage in the next couple of weeks also. I can provide numbers for the AWD and also the colder climate inputs. I'm not completely following the testing methodology so someone will have spell it out for me, but I'm willing to help.

 

That's great scott, while we have xcel's ear and experience, lets make the best of it. The best thing I like about the scangauge is the instant digital mpg reading. I'm rethinking my EV driving so I don't drain the battery so low. Its no telling what we will get out of the FEH now, even in cold weather.

Again, any of you with the Nav computer can help us out here also. Just reset the 15min average at the start of the test and record the results at the end of the test (all this while moving). I'm going to try again accelerating at the rates xcel wanted us to from 33mph to 43mph without any regeneritive needle on the Assist/Charge gauge.

I'll explain again what he's looking for.

Try to accelerate at 33mph and watch both the scangauge OR nav comp. from a reset (Start of the test) making sure there is no assist (Asist/Charge gauge) keeping the average mpg reading in xcel's requested rates to a speed of 43mph.

#1: 10 - 15 mpg rate of acceleration shown on the gauge (you maynot be able to accelerate this fast do to the assist needle starting to move).

#2: 15 - 20 mpg rate of aceleration. This test is a slower rate and I'm really going to give this a try again without assist.

#3: 20 -25 mpg rate of acceleration. I can do this in the FWD for sure.

Once you get to 43mph, let off the gas shifting to low. Ev will begin at ~ 40mph and coast to where you can maintain EV (its very hard for me to do this at 37mph without setting the cruise during acceleration to 43mph. Anyway, try to keep the highest speed you can in EV for one tenth of a mile getting a reading. I did a reading at .2 miles also.

Here's xcel's request in his words:

___So here is what I am interested in … Get up to 33 mph (doesn’t matter how fast, slow, whatever) and hold until you are coming up on some imaginary start point. When you cross that start point, reset the Scan Gauge while moving, accelerate at the rate of 10 - 15 mpg until you hit 43 mph, Shift to L, on the tach bounce shift to D w/ ICE-Off and maintain 37 mph in EV for maybe 2 blocks. Remember the finish position and record the Scan Gauge’s FE. Do the same for a 15 - 20 mpg acceleration rate run but you will be in EV for a shorter distance given you were still accelerating w/ ICE-On for a longer distance. The final 20 - 25 mpg acceleration rate should place you at the imaginary finish point just as you are hitting EV at 37 mph. The third scenario will have basically no EV because you were ICE-ON and accelerating relatively slowly for almost the entire distance.

___Record the FE of each scenario after crossing the imaginary finish line while in EV at 37 mph after each acceleration rate. The FE recorded will be low at between 20 and 30 mpg (more then likely) but this is basically an acceleration FE test between 33 and 43 mph. Once you know the proper rate of acceleration between 33 and 43 for maximum FE, you may be able to hone your D to L to D on tach bounce to N technique to an even higher maximum. I am going to guess and say an acceleration rate of 15 - 17 mpg between 33 and 43 mph will give you the highest FE over the Start - Finish segment but I really would be guessing? Remember, no Assist out of the pack during any acceleration rate testing. The 10 - 15 mpg rate may in fact be to hard an acceleration rate for this. I do not know what it so you will have to find that number out for us.

Notice xcel wants a beginning point and a ending point so the total distance is the same for all three test. I think if we cant accelerate at a faster rate without assist, the test mpg will need to be changed or assist will have to occur.

GaryG

 

OK, so we're looking for the average FE over that whole test run under those three different acceleration rates? I'll have to start looking for a flat area with no traffic to run those tests (not easy to find around here)

 

You got it Scott, the end reading is what we want to record for xcel. Its nice to know that the 15min average the nav sys give us is correct or at lease it matches the scangauge readings.

Anyone else want to help?

GaryG