Well, who knows when is when. If GM brings out the plug in Volt late in 2010, Ford and others will have to act. It is rumored that GM is mulling leasing the hybrid battery pack in the Volt in an attempt to bring down the cost of the vehicle closer to the non-hybrid version.

 

2015? That's a shame. The world can use these vehicles now! Waiting another 7 years is ridiculous. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and a new drug may take less time to get to market. The pace at which these automakers are moving is embarrassing. The battery technology is already there - I do not accept that excuse. Because if I do, then that allows Ford (and other automakers) yet another 5 years as they "fine tune" things. We've been hearing about electric cars since the late 1930's!! The time to act is now, not in 7-10 years (or more).

 

Part of the problem is... people are used to 250 horsepower cars ( or more ) so they expect 250 HP electric ( or hybrid ) cars.

It takes 746 watts to = 1 horsepower.

250 HP = about 200,000 watts, if you consider a little lost to heat.

200,000! ! ! ! ! !
That's enough power to power a radio station in New York that could be heard in Los Angeles. As soon as people accept 50 HP cars, we can talk about going electric.

 

One thing I was quite disapointed in with talking to everyone but Toyota, is that (in speaking about PHEV/EV with Fuel range extending onboard generator) is that none of them seem to be really pushing to get any product out to compete with the Volt with a 2010 launch date. Now, while it's a somewhat known rule of thumb among the auto industry that "We don't have plans for it" usually means, "we're working on it and don't want to discuss this at all", there does seem to be a huge issue with batteries and standards. Battery suppliers and production cost of specialty batteries to meet design specs seem to be an issue with many of them.

Many of them stated or strongly implied however, that if Battery Technology were less costly and maintained reliability, they'd be selling vehicles this year to two years from now. One manufacturer briefly mentioned the programming issues they were having with 4 motor electric drive; not that it wasn't insurmountable, but there were a lot of issues and a lot of programming that has to be perfectly ironed out before it could be released.

While the electric car has been around for more than a century, 4 motor XWD with modern range, lifetime usability, safety, and performance standards haven't, so I do understand that development takes time. Also in the Auto Industry, development happens painfully slow to make sure that their product doesn't cause law suits that drive the company into oblivion, because there are a lot of cooks so to say in the vehicles proverbial stew, and they're used to having time to develop things.

 

Well said Rich.

Watching some of the news clips, all the big wigs say "the public wants to go green, but they don't want to give up size, room, or comfort" and "we're working on 'no compromise' green solutions."
How is either possible?

Basically, that says to me "I want a Hummer that runs on two Duracell AA batteries and I want it now!" Some things just aren't possible.... without talking the route of "Mr. Fusion" we saw in the movies 20 years ago.

There just is NOT an equal replacement for gasoline.
And that's hard for the public to accept.

 

While I agree that an all EV vehicle may be off in the future, a EV/hybrid should not.

And while an EV/hybrid might not the huge horsepower loved by som, the fact is, people at one time DID accept 50 hp engines. Back in the day, those were the only engines available so that's what people used. It's a marketing feature to advertise these huge monster engines that really aren't needed. After all, how often does one truly need to get to 60 mph in 4 seconds?

Just as marketing got people accepting "bigger cars" and "bigger engines" and "massive horsepower", marketing can also get people drooling over 100 mpg tanks (or more). They can get people wanting an SUV that not only uses no gas for those short daily commutes (the vast bulk of people's driving), but that can also go 400 miles (or more) on one tank of gas. In other words, marketed correctly, an EV/hybrid SUV will appeal to, well, people like us - those willing to accept a loss in horsepower, in exchange for having an SUV that has tons of creature comforts (including the room of an SUV), and that gets fantastic mileage.

Those that want that Hummer or fast sports car will still have it. It's not like this EV/hybrid will automatically replace everything else. While I wish it would, it'll take a LOT more marketing to get someone to give up his truck (even though he never tows anything) or that 8-passenger behemoth (even though they usually drive alone) or ultra-sports car (even though they drive a lot in heavy traffic). But at least this EV/hybrid is out there replacing our hybrids. And our hybrids might be the replacement vehicles for those who finally grew tired of their Hummers.

When gas reaches $4/gallon, as many are predicting, and temps soar to new record highs this summer, people will start demanding change. But right now, the auto industry isn't offering a lot of change. I am grateful for the hybrid. Now for the next step. The EV/hybrid is the option.

As for batteries, per the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car", the battery technology is already there. O.K., maybe it still is expensive. That's because it's not being mass ordered. If the auto industry told battery makers they want these batteries and want them now, the price will drop and production will increase. But as there is no demand, prices and availability remain high. Ford, who was famous for helping create the whole "supply and demand" issue (and their factory assembly line production), should know this better than any - it's high school marketing. So again, I don't accept these battery issues as viable excuses.

I'm not saying that there should be an EV/hybrid out tomorrow. Take a few years to get things going. But 7 years? 10 years? Never? Inexcusable. That's the auto-industry's way of saying "yeah, we are trying" mostly so that they can appease Congress. But then they throw out some feable excuses, Congress backs down and that's that. Time for change is now and if we, the consumer, put the pressure on, it'll happen. While I too may suffer in the pocketbook, I do hope gas prices surge to $4/gallon - because then maybe consumers will demand more, and consumer demand is often what drives change. After all, if the Prius, our FEH's and the HH weren't so successful, would Toyota or Ford still make them? Clearly the hybrid is catching on - it took time, but it's working. Consumers are accepting them and I see more and more hybrids. So an EV/hybrid would catch on too. Instead of launching an EV/hybrid by 2015, they could have a decent market-share by then.

 

I want the same things most people on this site want.

Looking at it from the Manufacturer's standpoint, we are asking for something that takes twice the work for the same price.
And that, is hard to overcome.

Would you work twice as many hours per week for the same pay, just because a small group of activists told you it was the right thing to do?
-John

 

This is sort of the mantra right now, that everything's being held until battery suppliers can provide a solution. Everything's pretty much on hold pending a workable and safe Lithium solution. It is great that Ford has deployed plug in hybrids in fleets, because I think that, like GM with the Volt, it positions them to go to market faster once battery issues have been sorted.

I wonder what Toyota is doing. They have a habit of keeping things in-house, and they have deep pockets. I really wonder if they have made advances with Li-Ion and we'll hear about it soon.

When pressed to indicate whether Johnson Controls/SAFT would be a supplier (considering that Mary Ann Wright is there now), Nancy Gioia would not say. She said it was down to five and probably only three sources. I'd be willing to wager that JCI/SAFT is one of them.

I believe that having Mary Ann Wright at the helm of JCI/SAFT is cause for optimism that a plug in hybrid Ford is in our future. It seems to indicate which market JCI/SAFT wants to pursue and it tells me that their development is focused on automotive applications.

 

Two months ago I read an article from a reporter that was invited to the Toyota research facility in Japan and test drove the plug in hybrid...errr this reporter was actually driving a Prius with TWO normal hybrid batteries linked together in an attempt to simulate what the plug in Lithium hybrid battery would be like!