Hi, I have been driving and working on Honda Civics for 25+ years but I am new to the hybrid scene so please forgive my ignorance.

I recently purchased 2 HCH1s with questionable IMA batteries and I want to know if it is possible to read/monitor individual stick (or at least pair) voltages with the battery still installed or even while the car is running? I have read that with the HDS it is possible and saw people posting the data in threads (I cannot now find the threads again and I don't recall if it was even on this forum.) I have also read in a thread on this forum that it was not possible for the HCH1. So I'm hoping for a more definitive answer, possibly with explanation. Is it possible on later HCHs but not on HCH1s?

If it is possible, what is the least expensive HDS setup that would get the job done?

A little background:
I had been wanting to transition from a standard Civic to some kind of hybrid for a while. I found a 2005 HCH1 with a noisy but functional CVT and a leaky radiator. I purchased it for <$500. I have replaced the radiator and am in the process of rebuilding the CVT (bad bearing). Meanwhile the IMA battery has been sitting for > 2 months and I know that's not good for it. I also don't really know what condition it was in to begin with. I have since decided for various reasons that the CVT is not suitable for my needs so I will probably sell it when I am done.

While waiting for parts and time to complete the job, I found a 2004 with a manual transmission. The PO said that it was not charging the 12V battery and wasn't sure why. I showed up with two extra charged 12v batteries to be sure I could make it home. I figured it was either a bad DC-DC converter or the IMA batt was so bad that it wouldn't allow the 12V to charge. Because of the unknowns I got the price down to $750 and went on my way. The first battery got me most the way home (20-30 minutes) before I had to pop in the second. After a few miles, the car started operating normally. The IMA battery was charging, the IMA and 12V battery lights on the instrument cluster went out, and the auto stop/start started to work. Since then, it has been behaving as it should despite the fact that I have only been driving once every week or so just to keep it charged. The IMA still starts the ICE even after sitting (which was not the case when I bought it.) I cleared the codes and the only one to come back is P0404 for an EGR problem ( I can deal with that.) However, it does have frequent recalibrations so the IMA battery is still questionable. I need to determine its condition and I figured a good place to start would be comparing individual stick voltages. If I was able to do that with an HDS system through the OBD-II port, that would be great and I know I would have other uses for the HDS. I currently have an ELM based bluetooth scanner that I use to check/clear codes and to monitor realtime data. However, it has no programming capability which I would like.

I see a grid charger in my future and I have lots of questions about those but I will save them for another thread.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give on where to start with IMA battery evaluation.

 

Pair measurement:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...62/#post268612

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...18/#post264429

Note that with the IPU lid off, battery cooling is disabled.

 

Hi, thank you very much for the quick reply. There is a great deal of helpful information in those threads but much of it will not be useful to me until I have a grid charger.
In the meantime, I do have a few basic questions.

1) (Same as initial question.) - Is it possible to read individual stick voltages via OBD port and HDS system. In the threads you referenced I saw only one mention of HDS and recognize your warning that pirated copies of HDS may have viruses but still wondering if it is even physically possible to access that data in that way on an HCH1.

2) I have an opportunity to purchase a used MaxxVolts EL-1 grid charger. I don't know what he's asking yet but he said it was originally ~`$190. Should I pursue it? i.e. Is this a quallity device with enough of the features & adjustability that I will need or should I just follow someone's plans and build my own. From their website I can see that at the very least I will have to set up my own discharger or pay $300+ to buy theirs.

3) If I build my own, what/whose design would you recommend?

4) (This one may seem dumb but it is confusing me.) Which scale do I use when referring to the number of bars in the SoC? People write about their being a number of bars usually maxing out at 8. On my display there are the bars that light up as the charge increases and there is the scale to the right of permanent bars. There are 8 of them and they are small at the bottom and increasingly large as they go up. On the other hand, the light-up bars are all the same size and when they are all lit up there are significantly more than 8. At the bottom, one light-up bar is roughly equal in size to one permanent bar on the scale. On the other hand, it takes several (4-5?) light-up bars to match the size of the top permanent bar on the scale. So if someone says their SoC is at 6 bars, does that mean they have 6 transient bars lit up or does it mean their transient lit-up bars reach to the top of the 6th permanent bar on the scale. If the former is the case, how come no one talks about having more than 8 bars, since full would clearly be more than 8. If it's the latter, does everyone know this since it's not intuitive at all. This probably seems like splitting hairs but to me it seems like scientists communicating temperatures in Celsius and Fahrenheit not know the other is using a different scale. Sorry, that sounded like a rant but it is a serious question.

 

1) HCH2: HDS can pull the 11 tap voltages (pairs of sticks). HCH1: no. The data is not available via OBD2, HDS, anything.

2) No comment

3) No comment.

4) 8 bars describes the HCH2 gauge. HCH1 has something like 30.

 

OK. Thanks for clearing those things up. You are clearly very knowledgeable about this stuff so I am a little disappointed that you don't wish to comment on grid chargers. I will ask the larger community. Thank you very much for your time in reading and responding to my admittedly long posts.

 

Disappointed? Can I be disappointed in your search ability? I've likely made hundreds of comments on #2 and #3 on this forum alone.

 

Please forgive. I meant no offense whatsoever. In my limited time on the forum have seen how active you are and how generously and patiently you have responded to the questions of many. I truly do appreciate it. At the same time there is so much information here that it is overwhelming. Even following what's going on in ONE thread with all the new abbreviations, etc. can be daunting.

Disappointed was a bad word choice bc it implied unhappy with you. I assumed it would be an easy answer and was surprised by the no comment and didn't understand why.

You can certainly be disappointed at my search abilities (as I am) but I did try before I asked the question. I did not find any threads that were specifically about the topic (i.e. pros and cons of different designs or commercially available grid chargers for HCH1.) . I have no doubt that you have commented on these things countless times but that doesn't make those comments easy to find or understand for a newbie to the topic like me. When I have come across some of these comments they are in the middle of a discussion between people who are already using the devices often having built them themselves. There is a lot of assumed knowledge and unspoken background info. I am trying hard to follow discussions of grid-charging protocols when I don't even know what all the components are in a grid charger or how they are controlled. Since my last post, I have continued to search for more info with limited success. I did read a thread containing controversy regarding HA vs MV recommendations and I fully understand why you wouldn't want to go down that road again.

I know you don't owe me anything and you don't get any compensation for all the time you spend doing this so I tried to be really clear how much I appreciated your help. I apologize if my earlier 'disappointed' comment came off as some sort of rebuke. I'm new to the hybrid game and trying to get up to speed as quickly as possible. I'm continuing to read threads and learn as much as I can but trying to piece the info together from hundreds of different threads is difficult. If there is a source that compiles the basic info on grid charging/chargers and you can point me toward it, I would truly appreciate it..

 

I should have put a smiley after the "can I be disappointed.." bit. Came across to snarky. I wasn't upset.

You discovered my desire to not comment.

I'll elaborate with, both products are fine. If support is important to you, the objective evidence on this and other sites indicates that HA will work with you after the sale if there are issues. The MV response is more often a knee-jerk blaming of the installer even when the evidence stacks up to be a problem with the provided fan controller causing multiple HCH2 fans to run at full speed upon installation and continue to do so after the harness is removed.

 

Well, I ended up getting the used MV EL-1 for $105 including shipping. Not much more than parts cost to build my own! Hopefully I won't have the fan issues. (I did read about that before I bought ,but decided to take my chances since the price was so good.) Was it only with HCH2s? Maybe I'm safe with the HCH1.