Ran the scan again, all of the same codes pop up and I realized that all of those lights actually come on even just putting the key in the ON position. I can't remember where exactly I read it now, but I did read that those permanent codes will remain there, even with the 12V disconnected until the car is able to redo the drive tests that caused the codes to be stored as permanent in the first place. It won't even allow me to delete the codes with the scan tool.

Actually, there were 2 additional U0110 and U1205s, that said BUS off this time.

Also, I tried to turn on the AC system to see if that would do anything or work, and my fan under the glove box would not come on, whether I had it set to just the fan, AC, or heat. I did replace that whole fan myself a few months before the car broke down. I don't know if it's on the same circuit as one of the other components?

I'm not sure about the grid charger now, I was hoping to find step by step instructions with photos, or a video for something that I can use with the pack still in the car. Maybe for something like that it's not really much more cost effect to DIY it.

 

Again, step 1 in the Honda manual is to clear the codes, so they're not permanent in the way you think. The fact that they returned after a 12V re-connect means they are present at the initial power-on stage and are legit.

Get a manual and stay focused on the "U" codes until they are resolved.

 

So evidently this permanent DTC thing started in some 2009 model year vehicles, and was being legislated into 2010 and newer model years I order to prevent people from fooling emissions tests. Here's a link I found that explains it in detail. It's good to understand that while working through the issues I'll need to see if the temporary codes are coming up after each step.

https:/www.autoserviceworld.com/carsmagazine/taking-a-first-look-at-permanent-dtcs/

 

Rather than trying to prove your point or chase irrelevancies, you should direct your efforts towards resolution. I trust you have ordered a manual or subscribed to Honda techinfo.

The issue is specific to emissions codes. Emissions codes start with a "P". A big driver was people clearing codes specific to hybrid battery failure and unloading failed/marginal batteries on unsuspecting buyers. This was implemented in the 2010 Prius where the P0A80 battery code will remain present until it is not detected for 5 drives cycles, at such time the code will clear. The code can still be cleared prior to that. This wipes it from current, pending and historical records. It also eliminates all evidence of a problem on the dash (no warning lights); however, the code will remain present when checked with a code reader.

Permanent codes that are no longer active do not in any way impact the operation of the vehicle, nor do they present any indication of a problem. They ONLY show up on a scan.

I think it's safe to say that the above does NOT describe your situation.

U0110 and U1205 are not emissions codes. "U" codes are generic and typically address communication failures between controllers and/or devices. The most common cause of "U" codes is a weak 12V battery.

There are very few "permanent" codes, and this will not be relevant to getting your car back on the road.

Buy a manual/access the data.

Run the troubleshooting steps.

Fix your problem.

 

My apologies, it was not my intention to come across as trying to prove my point. This is my ADHD brain trying to reconcile information that I'm confused about or not understanding fully, but clearly in my rush this morning I didn't explain myself well. When I get information that seems to conflict with something I thought I understood or what my experience is, my brain needs to figure out why I thought that thing and it will be impossible for me to move on until I understand it.

In this case, while I know that you are an expert in this area and I trust the information you generously provide, I didn't understand why my code reader would not delete those codes (even in the reader itself immediately after deleting all codes the permanent ones are still there), and I also didn't realize that this didn't really matter.

So my point mostly was to share what I found in that regard so you or anyone else reading this would understand where I came up with the information, and why I was confused about it. Also to say that now I understand why there are temporary, confirmed, and permanent DTCs that are all the same code. Prior to understanding this I think I would have thought there was still something wrong with the car if had disconnected the 12V and those codes were still there. Now I know that if 1 or more of the temporary codes doesn't show up the next time I scan it, whatever step I took immediately prior probably helped in some way.

Anyway, I think I will go ahead and try to build the inexpensive grid charger to charge the pack out of the car for now, just in case it turns out that I will need a whole new battery anyway. Then I should have more time to either build a better one or save for a nicer pre-made system

I do plan to order the service manual. I find it very frustrating that I can't just purchase it as a 1 time digital download. Most computers these days aren't equipped with CD or DVD drives anymore. I wonder if I could offer my own digital download version or if that would get me in trouble...

 

Anyone have thoughts on this upgraded grid charger and discharger unit from RBbatteries?

https://www.rbbatteries.com/honda-products/cdc-system/

Steve, I know you generally have a strong preference for the system from HA, but this one with its touchscreen and programmable cycling seems pretty good to me at substantial savings ($415 shipped). I noticed on the page it says it charges at 270ma but in the instructions it shows it is adjustable up to 350. It seems like it has some good system checks with error codes.

I also like the clear and simple instructions and the fact that the marketing doesn't go on and on about how crappy the competitors system is compared to theirs, unlike a certain other manufacturer whose name I won't mention LOL.

 

I have an RB "simple grid charger" for the Insight. At $179 it is grossly over-priced given the quality of the components inside.

I would stay focused on the "U" codes for the time being. If you're looking for the most simple solution, external charging via the other thread (about $50) will allow you to determine if your battery is even still good.

 

My service manuals are due to arrive on Wednesday, but I was under the impression the U codes and issues I'm having could be the result of the HV battery voltage being so low that it immediately disengages the whole system? When I measured the voltage at the leads with the key in the ON position yesterday, it reads about 68V.

I looked at the other thread you linked but I didn't see any instructions that I could really follow. I can understand the basics of how it works by looking at the picture, but it doesn't show how/where it connects to the battery (or at least I couldn't tell lol) . I also saw on some other threads that at one point you had your own basic design in your sig, but I don't see it there now?

 

 

Ahhhh okay LOL I get it now, and it honestly makes more sense to me with the way the problem began of either working fine or not. With that said, is it possible once the two U codes are resolved for the car to start charging the battery if the voltage is at 68V?

I do still have the service printout from Honda that I believe the first thing they checked was fuse #9, and then the IPU fan, then a climate control test, so maybe I will start to try checking those things while I wait for the service manuals to arrive.

I should see if my scanner is able to perform those tests, otherwise I noticed on the same place you can get the manual one day for $25, you can also use the HDS for one day for $45.