***FOLLOW UP***

I took the vehicle back to the dealer and once again, it didn't fail diagnostics tests (Whatever those are).

The dealer is focused around the IMA failure light. The dealer informed me that a few months ago, Honda modified their repair startegy in regards to replacing batteries. Here is that guidance.

1. If the IMA failure light comes on revealing "battery deterioration" as the fault code, the first step is to do a software update. If the IMA failure goes out, do nothing else.
2. DO NOT Replace the battery until as SECOND IMA failure light comes on. Period.

Prior to a few months ago, a single IMA failure was enough to replace the battery.

I went for a test ride in the vehicle with the shop foreman and was able to demonstrate the problem very clearly. With the shop foreman driving, the battery dumped it's charge within a half mile, and dumped its charge two more times within 6 miles. DESPITE THIS, the shop formean told me his hands were tied. Honda would not grant him permission to replace the battery until the IMA faliure light comes on.

After getting the vehicle back from the dealer, I called American Honda directly and registered a complaint.

So at this point:

- The shop foreman is calling his boss attempting to get permission to change the battery.
- A service manager from American Honda called me back and is researching my case...


The only thing I can do beyond this is to take the story public. A story about Honda using software to supress a battery fault to save money replacing batteries sounds like a pretty good story, especially as much as news reporters love printing negative stories about hybrids.....

 

GOOD NEWS!!!

Honda finally gave my local dealer permission to change out the battery.

The battery should arrive in a few days. I'll update you folks next week on how my vehicle performs with the new battery.

The shop foreman's explanation was that the new software solves the problem for about 50% of their battery issue. So what does it do for the other 50%? Suppress the fault code?

I'm still suspicious about the new software considering how poorly my battery was performing without generating a fault code. What does is take to generate a fault now? A completely dead battery? I'm sure Honda is saving a lot of money from this new software by postponing any battery replacements as long as possible.

Anyways....

Thanks everyone for all the advice!!! It was very helpful in sorting out this whole mess.

 

Please keep us updated about whether this helps resolve your problem. The symptoms you describe are pretty much identical to mine, and I think the "drop to 1 if under X" thing happens to me. I get routine recalibrations morning and evening, but if I accelerate hard for a while and drain my battery a bit, I also get a recal. The symptoms came on pretty fast, probably after a visit to the dealer.

I'll check carefully to see if I can sustain any charge lower than 6 bars without a recal.

 

Please keep us posted. My 2006HCH has also been doing battery recalibrations several times a week, when the car rests all day at my underground parking spot at the office (no heat issues). It's dangerous when it does at freeway ramps or when changing lanes... It has scared the hell out of me several times when I almost got hit.

Just took it to the dealer today (wife did) and of course, they did not find anything wrong, no codes, but insisted on replacing my "engine battery", as it was only putting 200 cranking amps when rated 290, and my car needed that power for all the start/stops...
GRRRR when will I find a dealer that knows what they are talking about? The foreman told my wife that it was the gas she was using, even after I elaborately explained the whole battery down, recal, harsh clutch routine...

Car mileage has gone down to medium to high 30's for the last year. Keep tires at 40PSI and drive slowly as always...

I'm going to let them change the small battery just in case and prosecute it further if that does not resolve the issue (and it will not fix it) I'm at 53K, In California, and got extented honda care warranty.... yet they wanted $70 to connect the computer and read any codes!

Once I menaced with calling Honda directly at least they waved the code reading fee.

Keep us posted.

 

Since the12v battery was replaced and software was updated, virtually everytime it is driven, the car goes through at least one calibration. When calibrating there is no assist and if you need power to merge or just get out of the way you are "out of luck". There is no pattern as to when it might recalibrate. It might go from 8 bars to 1 bar and restore in a minute or two or it might need some serious forced regen. It never used to act like this. I do not let my wife use the Civic as she needs to drive more frequently on the freeway and this car could get her killed.

Having said all that I was totally satisfied from 2006 until when the 12v battery was replaced in 2009 under warranty. The dealer thought he was doing me a favor to also ensure all the software was current. What a mistake! It turned an excellent car into a dangerous car. Never once in the three years before the "upgrade" would we not have assist when it was really needed.

I will be taking it in for routine service and will inquire with the service department but looking at how others are being treated I have no expectation that anything will be found or that the previous performance will be restored. Also, overall mileage has dropped from 43-44 to 40.

 

I got the new battery today, and although I've only driven it on two short trips, the difference is like night and day.

- The car has maintained it's charge without recalibrating on both trips I have made
-SOC floated between 5 and 6 bars throughout the trip, falling to 5 but recharging back to 6. The car did not dump its charge at 5 bars as I have seen up until this point
- Auto stop kicked in more often than I was used to
- I always had battery power for acceleration when I needed it, and I noticed the electric assist kick in more often and with more bars than I am used to seeing

My main concern now is that I appear to have had a legitimate battery issue, yet Honda had no diagnostic test that could evaluate the problem accurately. According to their tests everything was fine. I will mention this to Honda customer service when they follow up on my support case.

I'll keep you posted over the next week or so as I drive the car more and gather more data.

Thanks again everyone who has contributed to this thread....

 

Two days and the new battery is doing great!!!

I have not had a re-cal in 5 trips, and have yet to have the SOC drop below 4. The battery maintained its charge overnight and at the end of the day.

My mileage went up over 6 MPG's.

Entering the freeway used to cause my battery to dump it's charge. Now, the SOC only drops one bar after accelerating up to speed on the freeway.

CALI06HCH: Your symptoms sound exactly like mine. When you go in, "just don't take no for an answer". If they say no, ask for the phone number of a manager so you can escalate the issue. Like you I pushed the safety issue. Take them on a test drive and demonstrate the problem. Good Luck!!!

 

4 days on the new battery and it keeps getting better.

- I've seen the SOC as low as 3 bars and still had electric power available when accelerating.
- I enterred the freeway with 4 bars and had enough electric power to accelerate up to highway speed from a dead stop.
- My mileage is still up about 6 MPG
- Still haven't seen one re-cal yet

To be honest, I don't know that my vehicle EVER performed this well, even when brand new. I may have simply had a poor battery from the very start.

I spoke with American Honda customer service:

While I was happy about the battery solving my issues, I raised serious concerns that I had a legitimate battery issue, yet there were no diagnostic tests that could confim that.

I also raised concerns that my dealer informed me that Honda gave them explicite guidance that prevented them from changing my battery and that the only reason they did so was "because" I escalated the issue.

I raised concerns about the new software which caused the IMA failure code to miraculously "go away" even though I still had a battery issue.

I expressed to Honda the safety concerns of intermittently and unexpectedly not having electrical power available when you need it.

In the end I don't know how much Honda listened. Mostly they just wanted to know that my problem was fixed so that they could close the case. At least my phone call was recorded.

So after going thorugh all of this, my advice to anyone who thinks they have a battery issue:

- Keep pushing your dealer to do something about it.
- Escalate if necessary, but don't take no for an answer.


Thanks again everyone for all of the input!!! It was a great help.

 

Good to hear Dave. I would say our original battery behaves almost as good as your new battery. We get an occasional re-calibration, but for the most part it's stays in the range you are describing, or higher. I think it's a bit of a lottery, each battery having a quantity of cells, and if any one of them is "bad", it can skew the whole pack.

 

The dealer isn't going to do anything serious that they aren't going to get paid for you or by Honda. Honda Corporate seems to have a pretty good track record when it comes to customer support. Hopefully they will make sure that they are doing software revisions for the right reasons.