newbie here, any performance mods...
#31
05-28-2006, 02:34 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
The intake was the first mod I did to the car. It resulted in a net of 15% better FE. The Exhaust was 2nd and netted me nothing more than a nice rumble. The wheeles and tires were last and actually weighed more than the caftory ones as well as a higher rolling resistance based on the 1 inch wider tread.
You have nothing to supoport your claims beyond an opinion at this point. I have experience that is nothing more than heresy because the car is gone as it was traded in on the HCH II.
I have repeatedly (7 to 10 cars) seen results from filter/intake mods. If they did not work, they would not sell as well as they do. This is why products such as the "tornado" and "turbonator" are failures. They are nothing more than snake oil and the public catches on quick.
K&N and the like are not still in business by selling things that do not work.
You have nothing to supoport your claims beyond an opinion at this point. I have experience that is nothing more than heresy because the car is gone as it was traded in on the HCH II.
I have repeatedly (7 to 10 cars) seen results from filter/intake mods. If they did not work, they would not sell as well as they do. This is why products such as the "tornado" and "turbonator" are failures. They are nothing more than snake oil and the public catches on quick.
K&N and the like are not still in business by selling things that do not work.
#32
05-28-2006, 06:10 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
ok... going to put in a maggie(supercharger), catback(exhaust) with electronic cutouts ( i know i will take of the converter instead), dragbags, cai, nitrous, new cam, have it re tuned, and some kumho slicks - take it to the track see if i can break 18 sec. 1/4...any heart attacks after that mod list...i digressed... its my inner child
#34
05-28-2006, 07:45 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Tyler, well, I have what I think is a reasoned argument, you have what you found with your car.
Why do you think you got better mpg?
K&N is pretty careful about making mpg claims.They usually make hp claims.
Why did the CAI improve your mpg? "I don't know why, but it did" is a pretty good answer to lots of things?
I don't want to rain on your parade, but THE TURBINATOR sells. The sellers stay in business because buyers want to believe it works, and mpg will natually vary from tank to tank.When it is better folks will say" it was my turbinator" when it is worse they will say" I drove too fast". The real answer,"I was a sucker and wasted $60 on a Turbinator" is more than they want to think about.
Hey, I have 5-6 K&N filters around the house-have 2 on my motorcycles right now.They make good filters. I just don't think CAI improve part throttle fuel economy on modern cars.There is no reason they would.
Thanks,CHARLIE
Why do you think you got better mpg?
K&N is pretty careful about making mpg claims.They usually make hp claims.
Why did the CAI improve your mpg? "I don't know why, but it did" is a pretty good answer to lots of things?
I don't want to rain on your parade, but THE TURBINATOR sells. The sellers stay in business because buyers want to believe it works, and mpg will natually vary from tank to tank.When it is better folks will say" it was my turbinator" when it is worse they will say" I drove too fast". The real answer,"I was a sucker and wasted $60 on a Turbinator" is more than they want to think about.
Hey, I have 5-6 K&N filters around the house-have 2 on my motorcycles right now.They make good filters. I just don't think CAI improve part throttle fuel economy on modern cars.There is no reason they would.
Thanks,CHARLIE
#35
05-28-2006, 08:03 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by bellyboy
ok... going to put in a maggie(supercharger), catback(exhaust) with electronic cutouts ( i know i will take of the converter instead), dragbags, cai, nitrous, new cam, have it re tuned, and some kumho slicks - take it to the track see if i can break 18 sec. 1/4...any heart attacks after that mod list...i digressed... its my inner child
Not meaning to drag us back to the first page of responses, but keep in mind that rationale behind hybrid ownership basically belongs in three camps: 1) Economics (bought the car to get higher FE and save money), 2) Politics (bought the car reduce dependence on foreign oil, terrorism, etc.), or 3) Environment (reduce greenhouse gases, emmissions, etc.). Some combination of those three most likely account for 95% of hybrid owners (or at least 95% of the ones here). Some of the convictions people have along one or more of those camps run deep, as you've seen. So for some, messing with those reasons touches a nerve. It's just all in the different ways folks here view owning their car. For some it's just a car - for others it's a statement of one kind or another.
Weather through it - there are a handfull here who will engage in a detailed mod discussion with you. I even got some pushback when I swapped out the wheels for light-weight racing ones. Others who have done a wheel mod often get the same "why would you do that" questions. To me, if we prescribe how people should own their cars we've lost the point of making these a mainstream vehicle.
Welcome to GH.
#36
05-28-2006, 08:10 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by Tim
1) Economics (bought the car to get higher FE and save money), 2) Politics (bought the car reduce dependence on foreign oil, terrorism, etc.), or 3) Environment (reduce greenhouse gases, emmissions, etc.). Some combination of those three most likely account for 95% of hybrid owners (or at least 95% of the ones here).
#37
05-28-2006, 08:12 PM
Re: Hey,I was dead serious about lighter wheels-N2O etc
Originally Posted by tylers65
That is why I got a 15% increase in FE in a 2001 Lincoln LS V8 with nothing more than an intake mod and new mufflers and larger wheels and tires.
This is like magazine racing. When I get the mods done, either I will be right or you will. But I think you are leading everyone here down the wrong path with potentially incorrect information.
Let's get some real facts/data before we go telling everyone that intake mods do nothing for FE.
This is like magazine racing. When I get the mods done, either I will be right or you will. But I think you are leading everyone here down the wrong path with potentially incorrect information.
Let's get some real facts/data before we go telling everyone that intake mods do nothing for FE.
In addition I replaced my stock y-pipe with a stainless 50 state legel high flow pipe. It added about 15hp, and did not hurt my FE at all. I still maintain the same FE.
The way I look at it, is that it requires less power to get up to speeds. Obiviously, if you are using your lead foot to drive your FE is going to be worse. I think some of the people need read around, do a few test, and do some dynos there self. I am not saying I am a IMA, or a hybrid expert, I am just speaking from my experiance. I would want my HP and great FE, who wouldn't.
YOU MUST REASEARCH PRODUCTS BEFORE YOU BUY THEM TO SEE IF THE CLAIMS THEY MAKE ARE TRUE. NOT ALL PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS ARE GOING HELP.
#38
05-28-2006, 08:54 PM
Sixxone- HP ACCELERATION SURE- FE improve-no
SixxOne, yeah,a good CAI can improve hp,acceleration-same for good exhaust mods. I don't have any problem with that claim.
IMPROVING FE 15% WITH JUST A CAI??
Did your mpg improve 15% with your CAI?
CAI's won't improve part throttle fuel economy in a modern car with a throttle plate and FI. They can't!!
Any decrease in resistance you get from the CAI in your CAI equipped car will be matched by my (or the drive by wire computer)opening the throttle plate a little more in my no CAI car.The resistance will be the same-we will have the same pumping loss-same amount of Fuel and air in the cyl at the same RPM-we will make the same power and have the same FE.
NOTICE I AM TALKING ABOUT PART THROTTLE FUEL ECONOMY-full throttle is a different situation and it is why the CAI can make more power, and better FE.
Full throttle use is very uncommon for most folks who are concerned with FE.
I think pumping up the electric motor and more battery power are the way to go. Leaning on the the little ICE won't really get you much hp(except with N20) and it can hurt FE. A pumped up electric motor with a plug in battery wouldn't hurt FE and it could give good performance(if you could figure out how to stuff a Prius sized electric motor in it, or maybe a HH motor??Luck,Charlie
IMPROVING FE 15% WITH JUST A CAI??
Did your mpg improve 15% with your CAI?
CAI's won't improve part throttle fuel economy in a modern car with a throttle plate and FI. They can't!!
Any decrease in resistance you get from the CAI in your CAI equipped car will be matched by my (or the drive by wire computer)opening the throttle plate a little more in my no CAI car.The resistance will be the same-we will have the same pumping loss-same amount of Fuel and air in the cyl at the same RPM-we will make the same power and have the same FE.
NOTICE I AM TALKING ABOUT PART THROTTLE FUEL ECONOMY-full throttle is a different situation and it is why the CAI can make more power, and better FE.
Full throttle use is very uncommon for most folks who are concerned with FE.
I think pumping up the electric motor and more battery power are the way to go. Leaning on the the little ICE won't really get you much hp(except with N20) and it can hurt FE. A pumped up electric motor with a plug in battery wouldn't hurt FE and it could give good performance(if you could figure out how to stuff a Prius sized electric motor in it, or maybe a HH motor??Luck,Charlie
#39
05-28-2006, 11:38 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by Double-Trinity
He is not looking to go racing, he just want to maintain the good fuel economy he has, which is going to be better than just about any other vehicle, even at those ambient highway speeds (due to aerodynamics, and efficient internal combustion engine), but have a bit extra power in reserve, in case he needs to do some sort of maneuver once already at those speeds.
When running an HCH at 75mph to keep up with ambient flow of traffic, you may already be revving the small engine pretty fast if there's any wind or incline to speak of -- any additional power you need for a maneuver won't leave you with much left in reserve, and if you do need to use it, you'll need to rev up to some inefficient powerband to do so, so a slightly more powerful engine in those conditions may actually be more economical.
For example, say someone not paying attention, going well over the speed limit shifts into the far right lane without signalling and is about is about to rear-end him as he just entered from a freeway onramp. This is something that happened to me the other day. I had to floor it to avoid a collision (I was lucky to be on a downhill). That is a situation where extra power would certainly be important, rather than for peeling out for lights. The goal would be to drive the car the same way most of the time, and get about the same economy, but have a bit more power in reserve -- This is the whole idea of hybrids, have a small economical engine tuned to be efficient in average conditions, then add electric motors for reserve power.
Buying a non-economical car to get power is a worse alternative IMO, than doing a mod on one that could keep up about the same economy but gain a slight edge in performance.
When running an HCH at 75mph to keep up with ambient flow of traffic, you may already be revving the small engine pretty fast if there's any wind or incline to speak of -- any additional power you need for a maneuver won't leave you with much left in reserve, and if you do need to use it, you'll need to rev up to some inefficient powerband to do so, so a slightly more powerful engine in those conditions may actually be more economical.
For example, say someone not paying attention, going well over the speed limit shifts into the far right lane without signalling and is about is about to rear-end him as he just entered from a freeway onramp. This is something that happened to me the other day. I had to floor it to avoid a collision (I was lucky to be on a downhill). That is a situation where extra power would certainly be important, rather than for peeling out for lights. The goal would be to drive the car the same way most of the time, and get about the same economy, but have a bit more power in reserve -- This is the whole idea of hybrids, have a small economical engine tuned to be efficient in average conditions, then add electric motors for reserve power.
Buying a non-economical car to get power is a worse alternative IMO, than doing a mod on one that could keep up about the same economy but gain a slight edge in performance.
I finally own a car that only has the power it really needs for 99% of its driving (I've been waiting for 30 years since Carter promised electric cars, and now we finally have something close). For the other 1% where I'd wish for more power, I'll gladly do without, because in exchange for that I get 20% better mileage. Tthe rest of the world has understood this for eons, why should america be so far behind the ball? We stubbornly cling to this gluttonous fantasy about what we really need, and it's such a waste.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but I am really tired of people wanting to take efficient cars and zoom them up. They're going to ruin our chances of an industry that supports truly economical cars. There are so many other cars on the market better suited to please the power mongers, and so few that are appropriately suited to economy misers... leave the economy cars alone and buy something else if you feel the need to smoke your tires at 75mph. If that concern is a part of your daily life, then a hyper-efficient car is not for you.
Last edited by zimbop; 05-28-2006 at 11:46 PM.
#40
05-29-2006, 01:50 AM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Zimbop
Thank you for that! I suspect that you are speaking for the silent majority on this site.
It seems to me that Honda have already given the engine a little supercharger - it's called integrated motor assist! I find the immediate torque-provided acceleration say between 50 and 70 is electric (pun intended). In the interests of fuel economy, quiet and comfort I do not drive any faster.
I wonder, does the speed thing depend at least in part on your age, marital status and bank balance?
Thank you for that! I suspect that you are speaking for the silent majority on this site.
It seems to me that Honda have already given the engine a little supercharger - it's called integrated motor assist! I find the immediate torque-provided acceleration say between 50 and 70 is electric (pun intended). In the interests of fuel economy, quiet and comfort I do not drive any faster.
I wonder, does the speed thing depend at least in part on your age, marital status and bank balance?
