I agree, to me those techniques are risky and don't show off the car's value. Any car can P&G. So when I hear of these outrages numbers and then hear the explanation, I tend to dismiss them outright.

I'm more impressed with high mpg from what can be achieved with the system running as intended. Shutting off the engine and coasting, if I'm correct, is illegal in most if not all states.

Anyway, that's my opinion, but it's pretty neat that people go to this extreme.

 

Hi Livvie:
___Maybe so and this is the exact reason why you do not receive anywhere near the FE of the RJbarlow’s, Lakedude’s, Kenny’s, and Hot_Gerogia_2004’s of the world to name only a few. Yes, any car can P&G. And most would be destroyed within a day or three if they were subjected to this technique over the same unlike your HCH. A FAS however … I can only hope your own FE improves mightily without using these techniques because there is this rather large and powerful by comparison non-hybrid Accord that is also loaded with semi-lux amenities that just so happens to be ~ 5 lmpg behind where you are today. Why would you pay so much for a less powerful and smaller automobile that receives just 5 mpg more? It doesn’t make any sense? Maybe I should dismiss your HCH’s FE because it isn’t living up to my own precise expectations?

___Here is something else for you to ponder?

CR’s 2004: Most Fuel-Efficient Vehicles by Category

Toyota Echo: CR Overall FE: 38 mpg // City FE: 29 // Highway FE: 46 // 150 mile trip FE: 44
Honda Civic Hybrid: CR Overall FE: 36 mpg // City FE: 26 // Highway FE: 45 // 150 mile trip FE: 44

___You could have purchased a Toyota Echo who CR’s says receives better Overall, City, AND Highway FE then the HCH for about 1/2 to 5/8 the price? Was it the CR’s drivers and techniques that should be dismissed or the HCH not living up to its expectations that should be dismissed? Obviously you dismissed this report given what that group of driver’s actually experienced in the real world? If you are not dismissing this report, you should consider selling your HCH and purchase an Echo because it receives higher FE then your HCH

___I have to ask, does your HCH’s ICE shutdown when slowing or when at stop lights? If so, is that not illegal in those same states? My Ranger starts up faster when letting out the clutch at any speed above 5 mph then your HCH does by letting off the brake so what does that tell me? Your HCH is more dangerous then my Ranger because it was designed incorrectly? Can I dismiss all Honda hybrid’s FE because the ICE shuts down when slowing or when sitting at a light vs. all non-hybrid’s? Have you heard about the Prius that averaged 110 mpg over an entire tank running as designed? Because you cannot perform a P&G or FAS, that relegates you and all HCH’s to less then half of what a Prius II is capable of? Maybe you purchased the wrong car because it was only designed to achieve less then half of what a Prius II can? You wouldn’t by chance consider consuming more fuel then necessary because the car manufacturers or the EPA told you that you can only expect to receive what they placed on the sticker, would you? Can I dismiss your actual FE because it is higher then the EPA says you should expect? Maybe 70 + in a CVT based HCH without a FAS should be dismissed because you can only average 53 mpg?

___All the above was in jest but I am sure you saw the light …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Where did I state my mpg? FYI, I get 52.3 mpg in an 03 HCH CVT. If I try, I can get that up to around 55, and without trying I'm at around 48 (that's going 75-80mph). My point is that without any P&G or going into neutral, I'm getting IMO good gas mileage.

I don't know where you are going with this. My HCH is living up to expectation without doing anything "special".

No. It's still "in gear". Nor are you coasting for huge amount of distance. I don't make up the laws, check for yourself.

Still not sure where you are going with this.

Ah... ok. Didn't know if I should take you seriously.

 

In my opinion, whether or not it is illegal in your state to "coast in neutral" really has no bearing on this issue. Because those laws, if they exist, were written for another generation of people, another generation of cars, and have nothing to do with the capabilities of a modern Hybrid car.

My manual tranny HCH allows me to coast in neutral "completely safely" whenever the traffic allows it.

I can also reboot safely, because steering and brake pressure return to normal after turning the key back on.

These cars are different from the old days, and the laws need to catch up.

Should any officer of the law even KNOW that I was "coasting in neutral" or coasting with my car off, I could and would fight the ticket by using the knowledge I have of how safe it is in this particular car in the year 2005 to do so.

Laws are laws until they are changed, but sometimes laws get outdated and need new modifications.

 

I'm just saying, good luck telling that to a judge, heaven forbid you get into an accident.

My point is, and why the law exist, shutting off the car on purpose, reduces your braking capabilities greatly. Therefore safety IS comprimised.

Since the hybrid uses electrical assist in steering, I don't think steering is comprimised. I'm sure somebody here can confirm this.

 

Also... if you try to do an emergency stop in neutral vs. in gear, you car is much more stable in gear then not in gear. Another reason why the law exist. Not to mention, if the car stalls for whatever reason, the brake system (being mechanical) still functions.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by livvie

My point is, and why the law exist, shutting off the car on purpose, reduces your braking capabilities greatly. Therefore safety IS comprimised.

Braking pressure is not lost during reboots either. Believe me, I have done that enough to know. And in addition, I do know how to use an emergency brake, should I need it. Those brakes are not just for using when you stop the car - they CAN be used actually DURING an emergency !!!

My point is that I am an intelligent enough person to know WHEN a reboot is safe and when it is not. I do not use it in tight traffic, or anywhere that might cause me to need the engine all of a sudden. I think it through and use it wisely.

And as far as the coasting in neutral thing, with a manual tranny? 100% safe. No issues at all.

 

So like, are these good for my car or not?
Regardless of legality (speeding is illegal too but everyone does it).
Regardless of MPG (we can all see that these techniques DO improve MPG).
How will these techniques, after time, effect my car?

 

Good for your car? Good for your MPG for sure, but actually GOOD for the car? Hmmm...

Well, with the CVT it's a little more difficult I think than with the manual, and my guess is that the tranny might suffer a little bit from "neutral to drive" shifts even at the very low rpms that would be involved.

So I don't know your answer, but my opinion is that it's up to YOU to decide if you want to risk the damage (however slight or not slight someone might tell you it will be) in order to achieve the highest fuel economy you can squeeze out of your car.

Did you buy the 100K warranty, and are you keeping the car up to or past that mark? If so, you have a little bit of "insurance" to use if you do have a problem.

I DO have a 100K warranty which I bought from Honda at purchase time. I expect I will trade this car sometime within the next three years, and that would put me still under the 100K range. So for me, I can be a little riskier.

 

So... How does one accomplish a Forced Autostop? Can it work on an automatic transmission?