Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
#1
03-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
For those of you who believe that CR takes paid advertisements and is biased against hybrids -- you need read no further.
For the rest of you, I thought I'd repeat some of the rest of the information about hybrids in the automotive issue.
Best sub-20k sedan: Honda Civic, including the hybrid
Best 20k-30k sedan: Honda Accord, including the hybrid
Best SUV >30k: Toyota Hylander Hybrid
Best Green: Toyota Prius
Most Satisfying: Toyota Prius (winner)
Most Satisfying Small Car: Honda Civic Hybrid (with two others)
Most Satisfying Family Car: Toyota Prius and Honda Accord Hybrid (with four others)
Most Satisfying Midsized SUV: Lexus RX400h Hybrid (with four others)
Best Vehicles under 25k: includes Toyoto Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid
2005 Most Reliable Vehicles: Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid (winners)
2006 Predicted Best Reliability: includes Toyota Prius and Honda Accord Hybrid
Recommended Vehicles:
Sedans if fuel economy is important: Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid
Midsized SUVs: Toyota Highlander (hybrid & V6), Lexus RX400h
Top Recommendations: includes Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius, and Honda Accord Hybrid
Top Rated SUV 30-40k: Toyota Hylander Hybrid
Top Rated SUV 40k+: Lexus RX400h
The Ford Escape Hybrid and Mercury Mariner Hybrid are rated towards the top of their groups as well.
I'd say that's a pretty glowing report card for us hybrid owners.
For the rest of you, I thought I'd repeat some of the rest of the information about hybrids in the automotive issue.
Best sub-20k sedan: Honda Civic, including the hybrid
Best 20k-30k sedan: Honda Accord, including the hybrid
Best SUV >30k: Toyota Hylander Hybrid
Best Green: Toyota Prius
Most Satisfying: Toyota Prius (winner)
Most Satisfying Small Car: Honda Civic Hybrid (with two others)
Most Satisfying Family Car: Toyota Prius and Honda Accord Hybrid (with four others)
Most Satisfying Midsized SUV: Lexus RX400h Hybrid (with four others)
Best Vehicles under 25k: includes Toyoto Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid
2005 Most Reliable Vehicles: Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid (winners)
2006 Predicted Best Reliability: includes Toyota Prius and Honda Accord Hybrid
Recommended Vehicles:
Sedans if fuel economy is important: Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid
Midsized SUVs: Toyota Highlander (hybrid & V6), Lexus RX400h
Top Recommendations: includes Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius, and Honda Accord Hybrid
Top Rated SUV 30-40k: Toyota Hylander Hybrid
Top Rated SUV 40k+: Lexus RX400h
The Ford Escape Hybrid and Mercury Mariner Hybrid are rated towards the top of their groups as well.
I'd say that's a pretty glowing report card for us hybrid owners.
#2
03-06-2006, 07:41 PM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Point well taken, Chuck.
Was the article in question just a mistake, then?
Or has CR been going downhill since its days a half century ago as the premier consumer advocate?
Was the article in question just a mistake, then?
Or has CR been going downhill since its days a half century ago as the premier consumer advocate?
#3
03-06-2006, 09:35 PM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Originally Posted by John M. Dwyer
. . .
Was the article in question just a mistake, then?
. . .
Was the article in question just a mistake, then?
. . .
Bob Wilson
#4
03-07-2006, 07:20 AM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Originally Posted by John M. Dwyer
Was the article in question just a mistake, then?
Looking at that particular article, when I figure in my natural bias in favor of hybrids, I'm still not sure if I agree with them or not. I think they raise some valid issues, but as you and others have pointed out, they may have chosen inappropriate comparisons and overstated some costs.
So I'm not sure about that article. What I saw as inappropriate and damaging to us hybrid-lovers was the indiscriminate bashing of Consumer Reports. To me, that just makes us seem hyper-sensitive and hasty to bash and discredit anybody who disagrees with us on a single point.
Hence my interest in posting a thread showing how many of CR's ratings and evaluations turn out to be decidedly in favor of hybrids.
#5
03-07-2006, 07:46 AM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Bob and Chuck,
Your comments are well taken. I am reminded of a quote from Dante's Inferno which translates as
This applies both to CR and to those of us that have issue with this particular article.
I have perceived some dropping of the quality of CR over the past half-century (realizing perception is not necessarily actuality). This article is the worst I have seen from them - whether due to carelessness or biasedness.
Nonetheless, I am willing to cut CR some slack - in part because of their great past track record in consumer advocacy.
Your comments are well taken. I am reminded of a quote from Dante's Inferno which translates as
The hottest spots in hell are reserved for those who, in the face of adversity, maintain neutrality.
I have perceived some dropping of the quality of CR over the past half-century (realizing perception is not necessarily actuality). This article is the worst I have seen from them - whether due to carelessness or biasedness.
Nonetheless, I am willing to cut CR some slack - in part because of their great past track record in consumer advocacy.
#6
03-07-2006, 09:54 AM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Originally Posted by John M. Dwyer
I am reminded of a quote from Dante's Inferno...
Seriously, thanks for your diplomatic and thoughful responses. You represent what is best about this particular forum -- less like talk radio, more like NPR or Meet the Press or <your favorite non-partisan, non-shouting, and civil news forum goes here>.
#7
03-07-2006, 10:24 AM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Originally Posted by coyote
...Whenever I'm reminded of a quote, it's usually from Mad Magazine...
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.
There is a difference between honest criticism and bashing. I may have not have walked the line (thanks, Johnny Cash). I appreciate the comments which helped me take a second look at the difference.
#8
03-08-2006, 10:52 AM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/060308-6.htm
I guess your voices really did make a difference, good job guys!
March 8, 2006
Consumer Reports corrects hybrid financial analysis; Prius and Civic hybrid recover price premium
Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April Auto issue of CR on newsstands now.
CR's revised analysis shows that two of the six hybrids recovered their price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership. The Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid provide a savings of about $400 and $300, respectively, when compared with their all-gas counterparts—as long as US federal tax credits apply. But extra ownership costs during the first five years and 75,000 miles for the other four hybrids ranged from an estimated $1,900 to $5,500, compared to similar all-gas models.
A calculation error involving the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the story, were compared to their conventionally powered counterparts led the publication to overstate how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during the first five years.
Previously, Consumer Reports had reported that its analysis showed that none of the six hybrids it had tested recovered its price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership.
The revised story, including a new and more detailed comparison chart, will be posted at www.ConsumerReports.org/autos2006.
Consumer Reports corrects hybrid financial analysis; Prius and Civic hybrid recover price premium
Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April Auto issue of CR on newsstands now.
CR's revised analysis shows that two of the six hybrids recovered their price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership. The Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid provide a savings of about $400 and $300, respectively, when compared with their all-gas counterparts—as long as US federal tax credits apply. But extra ownership costs during the first five years and 75,000 miles for the other four hybrids ranged from an estimated $1,900 to $5,500, compared to similar all-gas models.
A calculation error involving the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the story, were compared to their conventionally powered counterparts led the publication to overstate how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during the first five years.
Previously, Consumer Reports had reported that its analysis showed that none of the six hybrids it had tested recovered its price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership.
The revised story, including a new and more detailed comparison chart, will be posted at www.ConsumerReports.org/autos2006.
#10
03-08-2006, 11:14 AM
Re: Consumer Reports - the rest of the automotive issue
Originally Posted by philmcneal
I guess your voices really did make a difference, good job guys!
I salute CR for their quick reaction to the comments and their public correction of the computational error.
I still have questions about the assumptions underlying the "costs of ownership" for the vehicles. This is particularly true for the four for which CR concluded would cost more than their nonhybrid counterparts. (As an FEH owner, I know that the CR result is invalid for me. I am suspicious of the general applicability of much of the rest of the CR article.)
