My point was that I asked for people to NOT state that they were able to get XYZ mileage (by doing X and Y and Z) yet the first part of your post was an attempt to do exactly that.

I KNOW that Mr. Kite has an "interesting: route that permits him the ability to basically "coast" about 90% of the way down hills in his route to work (look at his screen shots to see that it goes ~24MPG for the first 5 miles and then is 60+ for the next 10 minutes, then ~40 for five minutes and then 60+ for another 10 minutes). I think EVERYONE realizes that VERY few of us can "coast or ride on battery" for 10 minutes at a time. That was my exact point, such driving conditions aren't "typical".

Is your HiHy a 4x4? I didn't see you actually answer that question.

I am fully aware of the EPA testing processes. My point is that while the EPA runs the testing that they TOO realized that the prior tests were not "realistic" and they changed the testing process itself. THAT CHANGE is the reason that the newer HyHi's have the "more accurate" rating of 25/27 (which just so happens to coincide with what most of us are getting). IMHO, Toyota has some culpability here just as Honda had with the odo error. The original test wasn't "realistic" and toyota and the gov't KNEW that yet allowed the population to be mislead.

The tax "rebates" were also mis-leading. Our particular sales rep said 'Yes, you WILL get $2,600 back on your taxes in the form of a rebate". Turns out that even though it was late in 2006 and he SHOULD have known better, he did not and Toyota wasn't giving their sales reps the proper guidance regarding tax benefits. In the end, I should have verified the tax benefits (or lack thereof)

So, no harm, no foul but your response was EXACTLY what I asked people to NOT reply with. BTW - Our FE AVERAGES between 25 and 27 pretty much ALL the time so... I guess we will live with it as it doesn't look like we can trade this thing in for a reasonable price anyway

 

Please go kiss Mr. Kite's *** somewhere else. I asked you not do this yet....

FACTS: Mr. Kite lives in Denver CO and has the benefit of "favorable" terrain which is what ALLOWS him to get these results. On top of that, he probably has a 4x2. On top of that, he DOES employ Hypermiling over this terrain. That's all FINE but don't go around PRETENDING that MOST people get this type of mileage out of these vehicles. As I stated originally, MOST PEOPLE (for those of you with an IQ lower than thier shoe size, does NOT mean Mr. Kite exclusively but rather DOES mean EVERYONE ELSE's averages, averaged together. For every one Mr. Kite with his terrain, there are 100 of us average guys who have no hill and therefore the DATABASE represents EVERYONE, not just ONE ISOLATED guy up in the mountains! And THAT is what I mean by referring to the AVERAGES on the Mileage database. ALL ENTRIES, NOT JUST ONE, Shesh!

That is my LAST post on this stupid diatribe

 

We can only hope.

 

All right, all right, let's all take a deep breath and relax, no need to insult anyone here, we're all adults.

 

nadabunka,
I'm surprised that you expected to get the city EPA numbers.Very, very few cars get the old city EPA numbers in an actual city with an "average" driver.
Your 25 mpg is about average for the not average drivers on this forum.Did you buy before there was much data here on the HH? I'm not trying to kick you when you are down;I'm just curious why you would expect to get EPA city numbers with the HH when it was well know that very few cars do,and on this forum the Prius was only getting about 47mpg in mixed driving.Once again,this forum has very few average drivers.Most"average" folks don't get 47mpg mixed with the Prius.
I agree that Toyota and all the other car companies "game" the EPA test to get the best EPA numbers possible.In that sense they are deceptive, but once again it is well know that the car companies "game" the tests.
You're obviously a bright guy. How did you miss the obvious? The Prius numbers should have been enough to convince you that the HH wasn't going to get city EPA numbers(it gets maybe 70% with an average driver).It also doesn't get better city mpg than hy-about 5mpg differences for us(43 vs 49(68mph).I took one look at the HH's numbers here on the forum,and then bought the Prius.The HH just wasn't enough better than our AWD Pilot, or than a V-6 Highlander,Lexus whatever.I guessed it would be no better than 5 mpg "better" than the non hybrid versions,and that was generous.
I'm guessing you were an early buyer,and you hadn't spent a lot of time here eyeballing the Prius numbers.You must not have seen the numerous complaints/rips that were written in several Newspapers/online sites etc.
The HH and Lex are great very quick SUVs and they will pay off on their $4000 preminum the way oil prices are increasing, but it will take >100,000 miles to save the 1000 gallons of gas($4/gal). You should save about 100 gallons per 10,000 miles-at 20 vs 25mpg-.You'll break even around 100,000-120,000 and you'll have had a better(faster/greener) car the whole time.Could be worse.
Luck,
Charlie
Suburb of New Orleans-strictly short trips-stoplight to stoplight with maybe 6 complete stops 90 degree turns per mile.

 

According to my spreadsheet, comparing my old SUV at 17MPG to what I'm getting on the HiHy, I'm averaging a savings of approx 8 gallons per equivalent mileage tank (or a total so far of just over 200 gallons for the same total mileage so far, or about $540 based on each tank's fillup price).

I really hope my math is right, because if it's not I'd feel really stupid right now.

 

WebG,
The math seems about right to me.If you are getting 25mpg vs 17mpg,you are only using about 70% as much gas to go the same distance;with a 20 gallon tank(I don't know actual size), everytime you use 14 gallons the old vehicle would have used used 20 gallons.
I use this formula to find the breakeven(strictly in respect to gasoline, not interest, $$ made on the extra $4000)
X= breakeven miles
cost of gas $4/gal-guessing over the 7-8 years period that gas will go to $5,so it will average maybe $4.
X/25 + 1000GALLONS= X/17
I use 1000 gallons-roughly how much gas you can buy with $4000(roughly the price premium of an HH)
I get about 54,000 miles at $4/gal-
At $3 gallon it is about 70,000 miles.
At 20 vs 25 mpg- $3 gas it is about 133,000 miles-a reasonable distance,and you will have had a much better car the entire 7-10 years.
I went for the Prius because we were going to have to dump the Pilot,and replace it with a very cheap-used-Suburban.We run the wheels off the Prius,and use the Suburban as needed.
Luck,
Charlie
PS It was easier to set the breakeven up in terms of gasoline used,and convert the Preminum($4000) into gallons of gas.
On one side I have how many gallons the old vehicle will have to use(xmiles/17mpg) to equal the number of gallons the new vehicle will use-same distance)+ the number of gallons you paid extra for the new vehicle .
The 17mpg vehicle used about 3200 gallons-cost about $12800
The 25mpg vehicle used 2200 gallons-$8800 but you paid about $4000 more initially(at 4gal).

 

I have the 4x4 and not the 4x2. Most of my commutes are less than 10 miles and 20 minutes. I do not live in the mountains. I live in suburbs north of Denver. I cannot coast or drive on battery for 10 minutes in my everyday driving. I can go maybe 1 or 2 minutes.

For me, 40 mpg is easily attainable when the drive is long enough to offset the warm-up, the speeds don't go above 40 mpg much, and the weather is favorable. Of course, cooler weather is now taking its toll on my fuel economy.

It is also easy for me to get less than the EPA ratings. In the city, it just requires driving aggressively or foolishly. On interstates, it just takes driving 70 miles per hour.

It is absurd for someone to say that Toyota misrepresented the fuel economy of this vehicle just because a person's driving habits are not conducive to good fuel economy.

 

Mr Kite,
I've noticed that I get my best fuel economy when we are at altitude-I-40 from Amarillo to Flagstaff(especially the Flagstaff to Albur leg).The thinner air really gives a boost the FE-maybe 5-7% over seal level FE(New Orleans)(1-2 mpg in a midsized SUV-Honda Pilot).The altitude from ALBUR(about 4500 feet I think) to Flagstaff(6900 feet) probably averages about 5000 feet.The climb is about 2400 feet over 325 miles, but most of that is in the last 20 miles outside Flagstaff.It is generally flat.
You probably do a fair amount of city interstate driving-which usually helps FE-but I remember that rush hour in Denver was bumper to bumper-slow with lots of near stops/accelerating etc.This profile that would be murder with an ICE only-especially without engine shutoff.Do you commute off peak hours? The altitude is worth something in your FE-maybe 1 mpg,since you aren't driving very fast.We drive about 73mpg on interstates out west,so the altitude(decreased drag) is more important.
Charlie
PS Engine shutdown-with electric AC comp,and electric power steering are probably 1/2 the hybrid fuel savings in city driving(the 1/2 is a rank guess, but I think only a small percent of the kinetic energy-5% or so-is recaptured).I think 200 watt hours per 5 minutes is about max for the Prius- but it is usually more like 50-100 per 5 minutes or about 1200 watt hrs per hour-roughly enough to drive maybe 2-3 miles at 40 mph steady speed,or maybe enough to accelerate from 0-25 mpg 6-7 times.I will have to look more carefully at the screen.Your HH probably doubles all these figures.Shutting the engine off probably saves about .4 gallons per hour in your HH just while stopped;the shutoff when you lift your right foot is probably more.

 

I don't think the thinner air has that much of an impact at speeds in the range of 25 to 40 miles per hour. These are the speed limits I see on a normal day. My normal commute to work and back does not have me driving on interstates. If I need to do some interstate driving in the Denver-metro area, I try to do it in the HCH II. The HCH II is much better suited for those speeds. In December, I'll be taking the HiHy on another road trip and I expect I'll see fuel economy in the mid to upper 20s for the speeds I'll be driving and the time of year.