floor mat-induced acceleration, problem & solution
#1
01-31-2010, 06:26 PM
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 373
floor mat-induced acceleration, problem & solution
I another thread, I posted the message below, giving my experience with floor mat-induced unintended acceleration, and my solution to my problem. That post prompted some to request pictures.
Following is a link to some pictures:
(There must be a better way to do this.)
http://img638.imageshack.us/g/dscn0070p.jpg/
Descriptions of the pix:
(starting from the upper left)
img198, img641, img638: the top of the bolt, through both mats, with the hand **** removed. Drilled hole in top mat is protected with a finishing washer. (A grommet might be better - a task for another day.) Hand nut upside down and aside in first two pix.
img267: clip binding the top mat to the carpeted mat, view from below.
img29: the binding clip
img695: two floor clips, stock clip on left with prong designed to engage the carpeted mat, modified clip on right with prong filed off and hole drilled in it'd place to accept bolt and with hex head bolt installed (head on bottom of clip with split lockwasher and nut on top of clip to bind assembly.
img13, img641: the clip and bolt assembly mounted into its grommeted hole in the base carpet.
img519, img641: the clear plastic mat loose and displaced forward, as it was when I had my unintended acceleration incidents. Note on the latter view that the clear mat is on top of the accelerator pedal and beneath the brake pedal.
I bought two new pronged clips for the modification, so that I could revert to the stock clips if necessary.
Here is a recap of my personal experience with sudden unintended acceleration in my TCH,
including some hard facts on a few items about which we have had some speculation in this forum.
I have TWICE experienced sudden unintended acceleration in my 2009 TCH.
In both cases I was traveling about 30 mph on city streets.
Both events were DEFINITELY caused by the floor mat.
The errant floor mat was a genuine Toyota overlay mat (thin clear plastic) specifically designed for the Camry. It is exactly the size and form of the standard carpet mat and is intended to be installed OVER the standard mat and secured to the standard mat with a binding clip supplied, depending upon the standard prong for the bottom mat to hold the whole combination in place.
The clip seems plenty strong enough enough to do it's job, but it's not. When it looses it's grip, the overlay mat can slide forward, in spite of the fact that it's bottom side is dotted with hundreds of little spikes to grip the carpet mat.
The notch in the mat near the accelerator pedal allows the mat to "hump up" over the accelerator pedal if the mat slides forward while the main part of the mat slides UNDER the brake pedal; so when you step on the brake pedal, the mat under the brake pedal and over the accelerator pedal actually inhibits your braking effort while pressing down harder on the accelerator pedal.
In this situation I could hear, as well as feel, the engine speed up more and more the harder I tried to brake - a little frightening at first.
The TCH definitely did NOT cut the gas or cut the power to the wheels as a result of the brake pedal being depressed.
On the first occasion, I was able to use the brakes to overpower the engine/motors and bring the car to a safe stop, although with very hard pressure on the brake pedal and in a somewhat longer distance than I would have been able to "panic stop" from such speeds if I were not fighting the engine.
The brakes can DEFINITELY overpower the engine in this situation, at least from moderate speeds.
After I had brought the car to a stop, but before I could park and investigate the cause of the problem, I shifted to neutral. Not thinking about the way the system works, I expected to hear the engine race, but upon shift to neutral, the engine went immediately to idle speed. Realizing, then that the engine would be returned to idle in neutral, I then maneuvered safely to a parking spot by riding the brake and shifting into and out of neutral.
After the first incident, I put two clips on the driver's side mat, borrowing one from the passenger's side, and I took great care to secure both clips very tightly.
On the second incident I knew what was happening, and I was able to cope with the situation much more easily by shifting immediately into neutral.
Shifting the TCH into neutral, even at high throttle, will very definitely both disengage the drive from the wheels and idle the engine. An unintended sudden acceleration can be managed more easily by shifting into neutral than by use of the brakes only.
After the second incident, I bolted the mats to the floor clip. Those mats are not ever going to move again except when I remove them for cleaning. (I topped off the bolts with flat hand ***** to make removal for cleaning quick and easy.) With this solution I will not need to worry either about the overlay mats sliding or even about the standard mats coming loose from their "prongs."
including some hard facts on a few items about which we have had some speculation in this forum.
I have TWICE experienced sudden unintended acceleration in my 2009 TCH.
In both cases I was traveling about 30 mph on city streets.
Both events were DEFINITELY caused by the floor mat.
The errant floor mat was a genuine Toyota overlay mat (thin clear plastic) specifically designed for the Camry. It is exactly the size and form of the standard carpet mat and is intended to be installed OVER the standard mat and secured to the standard mat with a binding clip supplied, depending upon the standard prong for the bottom mat to hold the whole combination in place.
The clip seems plenty strong enough enough to do it's job, but it's not. When it looses it's grip, the overlay mat can slide forward, in spite of the fact that it's bottom side is dotted with hundreds of little spikes to grip the carpet mat.
The notch in the mat near the accelerator pedal allows the mat to "hump up" over the accelerator pedal if the mat slides forward while the main part of the mat slides UNDER the brake pedal; so when you step on the brake pedal, the mat under the brake pedal and over the accelerator pedal actually inhibits your braking effort while pressing down harder on the accelerator pedal.
In this situation I could hear, as well as feel, the engine speed up more and more the harder I tried to brake - a little frightening at first.
The TCH definitely did NOT cut the gas or cut the power to the wheels as a result of the brake pedal being depressed.
On the first occasion, I was able to use the brakes to overpower the engine/motors and bring the car to a safe stop, although with very hard pressure on the brake pedal and in a somewhat longer distance than I would have been able to "panic stop" from such speeds if I were not fighting the engine.
The brakes can DEFINITELY overpower the engine in this situation, at least from moderate speeds.
After I had brought the car to a stop, but before I could park and investigate the cause of the problem, I shifted to neutral. Not thinking about the way the system works, I expected to hear the engine race, but upon shift to neutral, the engine went immediately to idle speed. Realizing, then that the engine would be returned to idle in neutral, I then maneuvered safely to a parking spot by riding the brake and shifting into and out of neutral.
After the first incident, I put two clips on the driver's side mat, borrowing one from the passenger's side, and I took great care to secure both clips very tightly.
On the second incident I knew what was happening, and I was able to cope with the situation much more easily by shifting immediately into neutral.
Shifting the TCH into neutral, even at high throttle, will very definitely both disengage the drive from the wheels and idle the engine. An unintended sudden acceleration can be managed more easily by shifting into neutral than by use of the brakes only.
After the second incident, I bolted the mats to the floor clip. Those mats are not ever going to move again except when I remove them for cleaning. (I topped off the bolts with flat hand ***** to make removal for cleaning quick and easy.) With this solution I will not need to worry either about the overlay mats sliding or even about the standard mats coming loose from their "prongs."
(There must be a better way to do this.)
http://img638.imageshack.us/g/dscn0070p.jpg/
Descriptions of the pix:
(starting from the upper left)
img198, img641, img638: the top of the bolt, through both mats, with the hand **** removed. Drilled hole in top mat is protected with a finishing washer. (A grommet might be better - a task for another day.) Hand nut upside down and aside in first two pix.
img267: clip binding the top mat to the carpeted mat, view from below.
img29: the binding clip
img695: two floor clips, stock clip on left with prong designed to engage the carpeted mat, modified clip on right with prong filed off and hole drilled in it'd place to accept bolt and with hex head bolt installed (head on bottom of clip with split lockwasher and nut on top of clip to bind assembly.
img13, img641: the clip and bolt assembly mounted into its grommeted hole in the base carpet.
img519, img641: the clear plastic mat loose and displaced forward, as it was when I had my unintended acceleration incidents. Note on the latter view that the clear mat is on top of the accelerator pedal and beneath the brake pedal.
I bought two new pronged clips for the modification, so that I could revert to the stock clips if necessary.
Last edited by Smilin' Jack; 01-31-2010 at 07:14 PM. Reason: completeness
#2
02-01-2010, 12:39 AM
Re: floor mat-induced acceleration, problem & solution
Click the image tool button
and paste in the URLHere is an example
Last edited by haroldo; 02-01-2010 at 12:45 AM.
#3
02-01-2010, 12:46 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: floor mat-induced acceleration, problem & solution
John, I like your method of keeping the mats in place. It would be nice if Toyota included bolting the mats similar while doing the accelerator fix.
About the neutral to idle on the TCH. That's one thing I really like about this car. I found out the very first day of driving my TCH. I was not going anywhere till I put he car in drive. In fact, when in neutral you can floor the accelerator and the engine simply sits there at idle.
About the neutral to idle on the TCH. That's one thing I really like about this car. I found out the very first day of driving my TCH. I was not going anywhere till I put he car in drive. In fact, when in neutral you can floor the accelerator and the engine simply sits there at idle.
#4
02-01-2010, 01:01 AM
Re: floor mat-induced acceleration, problem & solution
The errant floor mat was a genuine Toyota overlay mat (thin clear plastic) specifically designed for the Camry.
Little consolation in your situation, but the newer cars winter mats (not the clear overlay but thick black replacement plastic) are designed differently. Not sure if they still offer/sell the overlay mats, but just wanted to let you know.
#5
02-01-2010, 09:53 AM
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 373
Re: floor mat-induced acceleration, problem & solution
FWIW, I bought my 2008 in late 2007. At the time, the winter replacement (not overlay) mats were under product recall. When I finally got the mats the top portion (the part that slides under the pedals) were noticeably smaller than the ones you show in your image. The newer ones can't 'ride up' to cover the accelerator unless the entire mat moves forward by six inches, or more, an event that in all likelihood might never occur, or if it did, driver would be well aware that something was amiss.
Little consolation in your situation, but the newer cars winter mats (not the clear overlay but thick black replacement plastic) are designed differently. Not sure if they still offer/sell the overlay mats, but just wanted to let you know.
Little consolation in your situation, but the newer cars winter mats (not the clear overlay but thick black replacement plastic) are designed differently. Not sure if they still offer/sell the overlay mats, but just wanted to let you know.
I naively assumed that the binding clips were the Toyota solution to the prior problem - silly me !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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