Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
#11
10-23-2009, 08:22 PM
Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
Again we're talking 2 separate failures: stuck throttle and locked out shifter, which we already know, works during acceleration, kind of very unlikely scenario. Also, as far as going 110MPH, you still need time to get there from normal highway speed of 65 MPH lets say and I would assume at the beginning breaks would be still working pretty well, keeping the speed in check. My bet is on mechanical failure with human factor. BTW, now I know what to say when I get caught for speeding 
#13
10-26-2009, 04:13 PM
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Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
First, who, operating in their right mind and in a "normal" situation, would EVER want the transaxle to respond to a lever shift into neutral at 100MPH and WOT...??
Firmware designers, if the event was even considered, probably assumed it was best to ignore the shift to neutral as it was, would have most likely been, a mistake on the part of the driver or even a "bump" by a passenger....Child.
My guess is, would be, that the firmware is designed to only respond to "that" input once the car has slowed to ~35MPH. Or maybe even only if the throttle (gas pedal, really) is released.
Another unforeseen hazard resulting from removing full control from the driver, an ignition key, in this case.
For quite some time now, even going back to my '01 RX300, the shift lever only moves electrical contact points.
Firmware designers, if the event was even considered, probably assumed it was best to ignore the shift to neutral as it was, would have most likely been, a mistake on the part of the driver or even a "bump" by a passenger....Child.
My guess is, would be, that the firmware is designed to only respond to "that" input once the car has slowed to ~35MPH. Or maybe even only if the throttle (gas pedal, really) is released.
Another unforeseen hazard resulting from removing full control from the driver, an ignition key, in this case.
For quite some time now, even going back to my '01 RX300, the shift lever only moves electrical contact points.
#14
10-27-2009, 12:21 AM
Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
Well, always being the one to want the facts, I tried an experiment on my way to work. On an empty stretch of road I floored the accelerator, and at about 50 MPH I shifted into neutral while keeping the accelerator depressed. All drive power was indeed disconnected from the wheels, and applying the brakes brought the car to a quick, easy, and safe stop. Judging from the sounds, it seems the engine did not over-rev. I also verified that it is not possible to disconnect power by pushing the power button while driving.
#15
10-27-2009, 02:53 PM
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Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
We should all keep in mind that firmware revisions can and do occur on the fly, whenever the powers that be decide (and the "channel", EPA, etc, signs off on) a revision is needed/required. So a given model year, or even a manufacturing period may not act the same in these instances.
#16
10-31-2009, 08:35 AM
Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
We should all keep in mind that firmware revisions can and do occur on the fly, whenever the powers that be decide (and the "channel", EPA, etc, signs off on) a revision is needed/required. So a given model year, or even a manufacturing period may not act the same in these instances.
West, you are unusually intelligent with a very impressive history of working on vehicles just slightly more sophisticated than a car... I'm thinking about a kill switch and relay set up to dump power from the ECU or just at the 12v battery. Any thoughts on that?
#17
10-31-2009, 09:35 AM
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Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
I have always thought that the engine should be "killed" the instance one ven steps on the brakes even lightly, after all, that's the way CC works. So I would suggest using the brake light switch to provide the power to DRIVE the DBW throttle CLOSED.
#18
11-05-2009, 06:27 AM
Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
I have confirmed that you can, in fact, turn off the car while driving. As mentioned above, to do so you need to hold down the power button for 3-5 seconds. Since the car can not be restarted without stopping and shifting to park, I performed the test at low speed in a safe, empty location.
#19
11-05-2009, 10:17 PM
Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
Not sure if it's different for the hybrid but you can shift to neutral and start the engine if the vehicle is in motion.
#20
11-06-2009, 05:47 AM
Re: Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
Every so often, I see a newspaper article about someone who was injured or killed by driving a vehicle at high speed into a tree, building, or other large stationary object. It seems to me the best way to avoid injury from such causes is to avoid driving at high speed into stationary objects, not from changing the design of the cars, trees, and buildings to accommodate wreckless driving.
It seems clear from the published articles in various newspapers that the proximate cause of the unintended acceleration in the CA incident was a floor mat on top of the gas pedal. That seems like something that can be avoided easily. There might be a simple design change that can reduce the chances of that happening. But, ultimately, the driver is responsible for operating the gas pedal, and for preventing things other than his/her own foot from operating the gas pedal.
It seems to me, the sort of design change that might be helpful might include using a "positive attachment" instead of a "hook" to restrain the floor mat. A floor mat can come off of a hook, but would be less likely to get free from a clamp or bolt. And, of course, it is necessary that only the correct sized floor mats are used, since too-large floor mats could touch the pedals even if they are bolted down.
But, ultimately, the driver is and should be responsible to operate the vehicle safely.
And, ultimately, we will always have some fraction of drivers who just do not do so.
And, of course, some of those wreckless drivers will be law enforcement officers.
It seems clear from the published articles in various newspapers that the proximate cause of the unintended acceleration in the CA incident was a floor mat on top of the gas pedal. That seems like something that can be avoided easily. There might be a simple design change that can reduce the chances of that happening. But, ultimately, the driver is responsible for operating the gas pedal, and for preventing things other than his/her own foot from operating the gas pedal.
It seems to me, the sort of design change that might be helpful might include using a "positive attachment" instead of a "hook" to restrain the floor mat. A floor mat can come off of a hook, but would be less likely to get free from a clamp or bolt. And, of course, it is necessary that only the correct sized floor mats are used, since too-large floor mats could touch the pedals even if they are bolted down.
But, ultimately, the driver is and should be responsible to operate the vehicle safely.
And, ultimately, we will always have some fraction of drivers who just do not do so.
And, of course, some of those wreckless drivers will be law enforcement officers.
