"If anybody should have known how to stop an out-of-control car, it was Saylor, who was trained in emergency and high-speed driving as a 19-year CHP veteran. But a close look at the Lexus ES 350 raises questions about whether the car's very design may have compromised Saylor's skills."

"Drivers in other crashes also found it difficult to rein in a runaway Toyota. Guadalupe Gomez of Redwood City said he was held hostage for 20 miles on a Bay Area freeway by a 2007Camry traveling more than 100 mph. Gomez was unable to turn off the engine or shift into neutral and then burned out his brakes before slamming into another car and killing that driver, said attorney Louis Franecke, who represented that victim's family."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...5.story?page=1

I plan on testing the theory of holding down the power button for 3 seconds. I've shifted the car into neutral while driving before, but never while holding the accelerator down, so I'll try that too.

 

Not an expert, but...
But what about shifting out of gear when the car is red-lining? It's possible that the car can shift at certain speeds, but maybe there is a speed that is too great to allow you to disengage?

BTW, I'm in Northern NJ (Rte 78)...do me a favor, please give me a heads up when you want to test your theory.

 

That article has more questions than answers. Was the Lexus a hybrid or not? Also what happened to the gear shifter? Confusing or not, in emergency situation shifting into park or neutral would be the first thing I'll try to do, was it not possible in this particular car? And before the car got to 120 MPH, there had to be some period of acceleration from normal highway speed, during which breaks should be working.
To tell you the truth I did have runaway car and it wasn't computerized at all, it was very very old Ford. One of three engine mounts broke off and every time I accelerated little harder, the torque of the engine would lift it up, pushing accelerator cable to wide open and keeping it there. The first time it was a little scary and unexpected, but never out of control, since breaks could hold the car's speed down until I shifted into neutral. Actually I drove like that for few days until finally a mechanic figured it out why it was happening in the first place and put new engine mount.
There is probably more to the story than they say.

 

The article does not explain why neither car couldn't be shifted into neutral, something easy to test on empty road. Is there a lock keeping the lever from disengaging into neutral at full throttle, was there something else wrong with the car's shifter besides stuck throttle or was the driver too busy controlling the car to either think about the gear shifter, or actually not able to take his hand off the steering wheel to move the lever. And experiencing runaway car myself already on more than one occasion (old Ford, V8 350CI about 250HP), yes you can stop wide open car with breaks alone, even if you have to stand on the breaks, at least at lower speeds, before they burn.
More questions than answers.

 

In this post there is a link that has a CNBC news video that contains audio of the 911 call the driver made. I think the passenger said they couldn't turn the car off, so the hands did come off the wheel.
Yes, too many questions here, but driver panic probably prevented him from thinking about neutral...but this was a highway patrolman...so???

 

A couple thoughts:

On a Toyota hybrid the "shift lever" has no mechanical connection to the drivetrain components. It is nothing more than a fancy rotary switch with a few lockouts (according to Toyota's THS II documentation). The electrical signals go directly from the switch to the THS ECU. Ergo a software bug could make the "shift lever" inactive (it would move but wouldn't do anything). A possible exception might be the Park pawl but this would be sheared off at high speeds.

I have driven many vehicles where it was not possible to stop a runaway engine with brakes alone. A (relatively) safe way to test this is while stopped; step as hard as possible on the brake pedal with the left foot and then carefully apply power with the right foot. On many vehicles the engine will overpower the brakes and the vehicle will start to move. Of course the brakes quickly heat up and fade which lessens their grip even more.

EDIT: Frankly I am surprised they don't have an emergency kill switch that brute-force cuts the power to MG1 MG2 and the ICE ignition and fuel just for such emergencies.

 

I couldn't find anything in linked articles to indicate any of the runaway cars was a hybrid, was it (the article talks about engine vacuum boost for breaks, all hybrids must have electric break boost, since engine doesn't run all the time)? Wouldn't that call for a double failure of throttle and gear shifter at the same time? If you put rolling car into park, park pawl would not engage and shouldn't shear(I did that many times in normal car, but not in TCH), it should keep sleeping until wheels stop, but it should disengage drive train from wheels therefore solving main problem of accelerating car. Putting a kill switch in a car has it's own hazards, probably even more so than stuck throttle. What happens if you "kill" the car by accident, while driving on the highway and then get run over by a semi behind? I think there is a much, much greater chance of me being hit by "texting" driver or somebody running red light, than having to deal with runaway car.
One thing I'm not sure about is calling 911, I would probably be too busy looking to disable the car/find the best place to crash instead.



[quote=GreenRedTCH;212741]A couple thoughts:

On a Toyota hybrid the "shift lever" has no mechanical connection to the drivetrain components. It is nothing more than a fancy rotary switch with a few lockouts (according to Toyota's THS II documentation). The electrical signals go directly from the switch to the THS ECU. Ergo a software bug could make the "shift lever" inactive (it would move but wouldn't do anything). A possible exception might be the Park pawl but this would be sheared off at high speeds.

 

Today I was able to test the neutral functionality. I already knew you could shift to neutral while driving, but hadn't tried it while accelerating. You can, in fact, shift to neutral while the accelerator is pressed.

Still have to test the "hold the power button for 3 seconds" idea. I didn't want to try it at highway speeds and forgot to when I got to the parking lot.

 

Not to be difficult, but, I wonder if there is a speed where this is no longer possible? It's one thing when the engine is reving at a slow speed, it might be another when it's reviving at a much higher speed. I don't want you to test it, but wouldn't 110 MPH present a different set of circumstances than the one that you tested?

I imagine most people, under stressful situations, wouldn't wait the full three seconds. They'll probably press and press again (while panicking) or hold it for a brief moment (which to them might feel like an eternity) and give up. In a sitauation like that, three seconds is a very long period of time.

 

Both are good points. But the point of my testing this is to let everyone know, and to know for myself and my family, if there is something we can do to be safe until the problem is acknowledged. So for now, switch to neutral before we get to a cutoff (if there is one), and two...understand not to just hit the power button repeatedly (if the 3 second hold down does work).

Another unknown:
When the problem manifests itself maybe there is some sort of malfunction somewhere that also prevents the shift to neutral from being acknowledge or the power from being turned off at all. Let's hope not, but it's impossible to tell. We are at the Toyota engineer's mercy to figure this out.