I know of a person who's car is on it's last legs and, although they would like the Prius, he doesn't want to pay the added upcharge or wait.

What are other alternatives in that size category that also have low emissions and reasonable gas mileage?

I saw Xcel mentioned the Accord. Do people have other ideas I can suggest to him?

 

Hi Ericbecky:

___Although I believe the Accord 4 w/ Auto to be a very efficient, practical, and cost effective automobile as well as one that can be picked up in PZEV format depending on where you buy it from, Camry’s w/ 4’s and Auto can be purchased for even less cost with similar equipment. The pluses in regards to the Camry is it has a smoother ride, larger trunk space, and higher reliability imho. There are numerous reports of 03/04 Accord’s with rattles, brake issues, and even the Tranny Recall of the V6’s. This is very Un-Honda like. The negatives of a Camry are that you are very isolated from the road (little feel), the seats are supposedly not as comfortable, and they are as plain jane and common looking interior/exterior wise as you could possibly imagine. It is also not quite as fuel efficient but close. You can usually find them (Camry’s) for a slightly lower cost around here although not in PZEV format. These 2 true mid-size automobiles are the only 2 I would consider. In California, Honda dealerships are selling PZEV based Accord I4’s for less then Invoice including factory to dealership cash! Around here, we aren’t so lucky

___If your friend is interested in a bit of Luxury, the Acura TSX might be a consideration. $27K at MSRP including delivery and with some haggling (we would always haggle ); they can be picked up for ~ 25 - $26K. You lose a bit of fuel economy (I believe CR received 35 mpg from theirs on the highway) but it comes std. at 200 HP on premium unleaded. Maybe 190 on Regular. Not that 200 HP means anything to most but it might mean something to your friend? This does include 17” alloys, leather, powered driver seat w/ lumbar, heated seats, powered sunroof, traction and stability control, 4 wheel ABS, front, side, and head airbags, remote anti-theft, HID’s, Tilt and telescopic wheel, universal remote for garage doors, dual zone auto climate, electro chromatic rear view mirror, and an in-dash 6 CD 360 W stereo. Maybe 1/2 - 2/3 the mileage of a Prius in real world terms but it is available today and is filled with lux features you can’t find in our hybrid’s. It is still a bit rich for my blood but is a very nicely equipped, efficient, performance bred automobile for the price imho.

___Then there is the supposed SULEV rated 2006 Honda Fit … HCH/Civic interior size, smaller exterior, and close to HCH type fuel economy for $10 - $13K brand spanking new! Here in the states, speculation is for the new 1.5 L Vtec w/ 108 HP. With the 5-speed or possible brand new 6-speed stick, you will probably hit 60 in just 8.5 seconds which is fast for a compact in anyone’s book. The 7-speed CVT has received many accolades from those that own them in Australia and Asia. It (the Fit) can hold (2) Mountain bikes standing up (minus the front wheels of course) which is a far cry from any Hybrid hatch or any of the sedans I might be interested in today as well. Release dates have been rumored to be anywhere from January to mid-late summer of 2005. This is where I am placing my bets for the best all-around practical commuter/cruiser right now.

___Since it is so close to the release of the 05’s and if he/she were buying new, I would have him/her try and hold on for just a few more months. The resale difference between an 04 and an 05 when selling it in 2011 might be worth the few months wait?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

If you are interested in traveling you can often find a Prius at more rural locations. I got one from Helena MT in 5 and a half weeks. I will fly out and drive it home but delivery can be arranged as well. Nice people I would recomend them.

 

I would throw out the option of the Scion tC as well, it runs on the Camry powerplant, and is a little more sporty/luxury, but slightly smaller.

 

Hi Ericbecky:

___Although a bit of a stretch, they do have $5,000 rebates but the resale is probably bunk …

___We just got back from Phoenix, AZ. 2 days ago and while we where there, we rented a Buick Le Sabre Custom w/ the 205 HP 3.8 L V6 and received what I would call decent mileage from this large of a beast. It had a rudimentary game gauge which helped me get a feel for her in its first few miles but we didn’t have a tire pressure gauge nor could I find a local gas station with a fill station. The oil level was 50% above the full mark so this thing was not setup for high fuel economy in the least. A/C was on MAX all day/night everyday/night with highway speeds of 55 - 70 mph on the freeways between Phoenix, Las Vegas, Fresno, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and back to Phoenix as well as quite a bit of driving around town between Glendale and Sun City proper. I used both driving w/ load as well as some drafting as the 18-wheelers in California truly did follow the limits within 5 mph or so. This fact was actually amazing to me as well!

___Here are some fuel economy stats I received in this the car with at least 2 to 3 gallons burned off (60 - 90 miles worth) on its first tank as the fuel gauge was only at the Full mark instead of beyond by another 1/8 of an inch as seen when I filled her the 3X’s afterwards. On this shorted first tank, I reset the FCD after 141 miles of pure city with a 26.9 mpg showing. We then drove 388.6 miles on the highway to our first fuel stop in Vegas. This first tank will be skewed because of the Avis fillup and city/hwy mixed but since the FCD was just a bit optimistic on the last 3 full tanks, you can see what this monster was truly worth without even being setup properly.

Tank #1 on 07/25/2004:

Tank Average: 529.6 miles/17.9 gallons = 29.58 mpg
FCD: 141 miles 100% City: 26.9 mpg ** 388.6 miles 100% Highway: 36.9 mpg

Tank #2 on 07/27/2004:

Tank Average: 584.4 miles/17.933 gallons = 32.588 mpg
FCD: 35.7

Tank #3 on 07/30/2004:

Tank Average: 615.9 miles/17.775 gallons = 34.65 mpg
FCD: 36.9

Tank #4 on 07/31/2004:

Tank Average: 539.3 miles/14.630 gallons = 36.86 mpg
FCD: 39.0

___Overall, the car had great size as my 12 year old son was sprawled out across the back seat in sleep mode for much of the itinerary. It had a very Camry like ride and road feel but larger size. Given its looks, it fit in quite nicely with the Sun City folks if you know what I mean

___Just another choice given the initial costs w/ rebates applied as of late. I was truly surprised by its fuel economy given its weight and large ICE. GM’s ancient 6’s are remarkable if not downright amazing given the A/C use and fuel economy received.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

yes, that is definitely amazing for that size car with that engine and the load and the heat. I'm getting not much more than that in Phoenix with my 2004 MT HCH - but my emissions are lower at least !!

 

xcel,
For reference, here’s the EPA estimates for this car: 20 city/29 hwy.

You managed some pretty good pummeling of the EPA estimates! Especially since you had the a/c on the whole time! I calculate that your mpg was ~19.% better than EPA hwy estimates for the last three tanks. (Your mpg: 34.64 mpg)

I definitely agree with the EPA’s statement:
“Actual mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition.” Because of you, I always stress the “driving habits”.

 

2 are available at University Toyota, Morgantown, WV. I got mine there 3 months ago from Ed Whiteford @1304-296-4401 tell him Carlos sent you. You will not pay more than MSRP!

1 silver package 9
1 black package 4

 

I agree that a Prius can be found in rural locations without much waiting. In addition to the others mentioned above, call Scott Anderson at Riverside Town & Country in Escanaba, Michigan (upper peninsula). Most of the cars he is allocated are the BC package, and he has experience with out-of-state buyers.

I happened to reach him just before his allocation was announced, and got my 2004 Prius in 22 days at MSRP. His website is www.riversidehasit.com
Good luck.

 

Rural dealer was my ticket as well to an MSRP PII without any wait at all (bought 09/04). In a odd twist of irony, I wasn't in any particular rush to buy. I told the dealers what colors/packages I was open to, and said I would buy when a car became available.

The particular dealer was Gallup Amigo in Gallup, NM. They receive two cars a month; I have to believe that there is not much local demand

I did eat a $99 doc fee; otherwise the dealer was OK.

More generally, I suggest you look up the dealer database in the Toyota website, and email every dealer you are willing to buy from.