Hi all,

I got my license about a year ago and bought a 2000 BMW 316, it has been good to me, but obviously it uses up quite a bit of gas.

Been saving up to get something better, something that's cheaper to drive, and has a decent size. A hybrid is really something I would like, and with my budget (about 6k euro top - 2008 HCH models start here at 3.5k) that limits me to Civics and Prius', and I really dislike how a Prius looks.

I'm reading a lot about battery issues, I've also read about extended warranty, non-oem batteries, and fixing/replacing cells to get it running again.

What I really want to know, which years are save to buy, what should be the max km's on them, and what kind of costs should I be expecting.

 

I've owned two. Do not buy a Honda Civic Hybrid. You will regret it.

If you hate money and want unreliable transportation, THEN a Honda Civic Hybrid is a good choice.

 

So are you saying all of them are bad? Or at least none of them are worth buying? As in all models?

And what makes them so unreliable?

 

The 09-11 has the WORST hybrid battery ever made. 30% failure rate in 3-4 years.
The 06-08 has the 2nd worst hybrid battery ever made. 16% failure rate in 6-7 years.

Oddly enough, the above two packs are made using the exact same Sanyo cells as the Ford Escape Hybrid... which has one of the most reliable batteries ever made. The difference is cooling and battery management. Honda blew it on both counts.

03-05 is a little better, but they are still not reliable.

A hybrid is a risk/reward thing.

• A new hybrid has low risk/high reward. Lots of savings associated with reduced fuel costs and a very low likelihood of expensive repairs.
• A used hybrid risk/reward flips. You have a much higher risk for expensive repairs that will wipe out any savings from short term ownership.

I've owned:

2X G1 Insight (these are basically novelties)
2X HCH2 (06)
1X 2003 Prius
2X 04-09 Prius.

I like EVERYTHING better about the civic in terms of an automobile. Ergonomics, handling, etc., BUT MY CHOICE for reliable transportation is the Prius. It's not even a comparison. Yeah, it's just a "driving appliance," but it gets better mileage with higher reliability by far. Honda hybrids are **** with the exception of the G2 Insight and CR-Z. They managed to get the cooling right on those batteries.

If you want inexpensive reliable transportation, get a small ICE powered car.

 

I have zero interest in small cars, while I agree that they offer great value, for me it's not an option.

While a hybrid is not a requirement, with gas prices around here (we are 5th highest in the world), a hybrid is very attractive.

What's the deal with Civics after 2011? I couldn't find any second hand ones. They exist right?

I should be able to save up a bit more and get a 3rd gen Prius, would that be a safe car to buy and worth it?

 

Seconded, with the caveat it should be a really common brand so that parts are easily obtained and also inexpensive. BMW mini's are small cars but they will not be inexpensive to maintain. In the USA that would be a Corolla, Civic, or Mazda 3. Maybe a Hyundai Elantra. The 3 is the most fun to drive, the Corolla the most reliable. In Europe you have some other options that are not sold here. Consider a hatchback over the sedan if you are ever going to need to transport, well, pretty much anything bigger than a couple of moving boxes.

The very latest Hybrid Camry with a Lithium pack looks like it might be a good choice for a used car in a few years, depending on how long those packs actually last and how much replacement packs cost. The grill is pretty hideous though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...id-test-review

The couple of paragraphs about the MPG they observed versus the EPA numbers were interesting.

 

Then why are you looking at Prius and Civic? That is a small car, in the USA at least. Guess it depends what you mean by small. A Fiat 500 is even smaller.

 

"small car" = civic, corolla, sentra, etc. - essentially the same class you're looking at when you're talking the typical hybrids.

Run the numbers for yourself. How much will you save and offset that against a multi-thousand dollar repair once every 2 years going forward. Yes, that's worst case, but using the prius as an example: 1) battery, 2) transaxle, 3) ABS actuator, 4) Inverter. The Gen3 have another bonus failure, 5) head gasket.

2012+ HCH3 uses lithium. They are more reliable, and you don't find many for sale.

In warm climates 3rd gen Prius are VERY hard on their batteries. Repair and reconditioning is not an option. For a reliable repair 18+ modules need to be replaced.

 

Hatchback is not a must, my gf drives a hatchback atm and is going for a stationwagon soon.

I don't know about how much ease uses, but I know the Civic isn't cheap, a friend of mine had a 2008 hatchback and was running slightly better than my 3 series BMW.
What is the definition for you when you are in a small car? For me it's not having enough legroom in the back for an adult. If you ever took seat in a C1, Aygo, 500 or similar, you would understand that a Prius is not a small car (never been in a HCH, so no clue about the legroom in the back)
So no go on the HCH.

So I get worse case scenarios, but the thing is that I can save about 100 euro on gas every month. I know there are cars who run quite cheap, but they are either quite expensive second hand, or they are old with very little luxuries.
Gas prices are insane here, so that's my main concern, but it still needs to have the main luxuries.

 

Let's see how much you drive if that would only save you 100 euro a month. In most of Europe gas is around $7/gallon, euro is 1.15 dollars, hybrid avg mpg ~40, conventional ~25. Let X = miles driven per month: 115=7X/25 - 7X/40 => X = (115*40*25)/(7*15) => X = 1095 (miles). Pretty average for the US, not sure about where you are. If you drove twice that much the hybrid might be a win, even with the expensive repairs.

Do you live in a region where the little turbo diesels are still allowed? Those get pretty good MPG and so long as your country doesn't ban them it might make economic sense to drive one. The regulatory uncertainty should have driven their prices way down over the last year or so.

As for back seat leg room, well, I can sit relatively comfortably in the back of my 2003 Civic, but I am only 5'8" and I would not want to spend hours there. The back seat in the one Prius cab I took had more leg space. My neighbor has a Fiat 500, and the back seat only looks suitable for small children or maybe a cat.