Just because you've been lucky in the past, does not insure you will be in the future.

While scared, nervous, and anxious being his passenger, I was also polite, curteous, and grateful for having a conversation partner, and for being invited into his home.

Most of my "hypermiling" is done on back roads. I live in a quasi-rural area with very little traffic. That is an O.K. place for it. IMHO

Yes... let's move on.

 

I just wonder how this thread would go if we were talking about an Escalade owner tailgating a truck at 1 car length, or a Viper taking a 25 mph turn at 52 mph.

 

Hi All:

___Thanks to all who PM’ed me for the heads up as to what was going on over here. I will try and post something relevant to the individual posters own responses.

___JMorton10, I will be at HF2007. Would you care to go out for a clinic and find out for yourself what hypermiling is all about? 800,000 miles of driving in my life with 2 accidents. One was my wife and I as well as with 4 other automobiles were hit from behind while sitting at a stop light by a drunk driver traveling > 50 mph who never touched the brakes. The other was an 18-wheeler at Lake Cook Road and I-294 in Chicago when he merged into my lane and his trailer pushed my Nissan P/U and I into the guardrail. Fortunately traffic was very heavy and we were all traveling probably less then 50 mph.

___WaltPA, this year’s Daytona 500 would be a great case study as the only way Kevin Harvick beat Mark Martin at the finish was completely due to a bump draft from Matt Kenseth on the last lap. Do you really think my Insight’s lmpg, the Prius Marathon Attempt, Tour Del Sol 2006, HF2006 and the Insight Marathon achievements had anything to do with drafting? I may have had the second cleanest Insight in the world (behind Billy’s of course ) and InsightGary who owns it today can vouch for the nick free hood with over 90,000 miles on it today.
___Jason, you sold GreenHybrid for $40 - $50K to a corporate entity who gave a **** about nothing but the bottom line. Did you ever really care about your members or the Hybrid community as a whole? I see no commitment to the hybrid community with that kind of non-sense and your past actions speak volumes as to where your allegiances lye. When I see you reporting from or about the numerous Hybrid and future Auto events and releases we have, I will know someone over here is finally serious about the hybrid community as we are.

___Xavier6162, I just found out about this thread this morning. Read below …

___DenverJay, read below.

___Brady, would you like go to a Milwaukee or Madison Hybrid Group Meet with us sometime? They are always an enjoyable experience. Not only will you enjoy the camaraderie but experiencing a hypermiling clinic afterwards is worth the price of admission! Free of course I know you would love it. Debbie Anders is a regular at the MiHG meets and could use the support of a fellow FEH driver

___Rcomeau, let me point out 16 miles of my play ground. Pulse and Glide plus Warp Stealth in the Prius II for maximum FE …. When I am pushing a tank like this week, I live on this empty frontage road coming home from work for the first 16 miles. The techniques are wide open because the speed limits are 25 - 45 and there is nobody on it. Especially at 12:00 AM. This mornings drive home on I-55, I-294 and I-94 showed maybe 1,000 drivers over 75 miles of Interstate to deal with. The Accord’s result … just a touch under 60 for her with a 24/34 rating. I can take you out for a clinic if you can make it to the Chicago area sometime this summer.

___Tim K., read below but do you really think 180 + in an Insight or 120 + over a 90 + miles at the Prius Marathon was achievable doing anything dangerous? Please. Terry was in the car (it was his car!) for our drive from O’Hare to my home and you can ask him.

___GPSMan1, you are good but you aren’t in the same league with Gary and that has been your problem all along. You asked to be banned from CleanMPG after I busted your chops for the third time because you were telling Gary what was possible and what wasn’t in his LGA article. Fortunately, Gary’s techniques for the FEH are sound. As for the rest, 3 or 4 accidents in a single day yet my record listed above shows something completely different? If you have an ax to grind and would like to fib even more, I will be at HF2007 so you can do it in person.

************************************************** ************************************

___Now let us do some analysis about some of the articles discussion in context to the (HF 2006) weekends activities …

who at 6 feet 1 inch and 210 pounds looks too big to fit into this tin can two-seater. <-- I actually weigh 219 #’s as of this morning To many Holiday Cookies I guess

He’s wearing Nike running sneakers, shorts, and a baseball cap over his thinning sandy hair that says “CleanMPG.com,” the name of the Website he established with his friend Tom Baleno in the spring of this year, dedicated to “increasing fuel economy, mileage, and lowering emissions of whatever automobile you own and drive.” <-- This sentence was pulled from the article.

Everyone runs for cover, and I jump into a Toyota Prius owned by one of Wayne's hypermiling buddies, Dave Bassage. Puddles and high winds are a hypermiler's nightmare. "Nature's putting on its own energy show," says Bassage, watching the blasts of lightning through his water-splattered windshield. "This pretty much screws Wayne."


The speed limit is 55, and most of the traffic is zipping past at 75 or so, but Wayne hovers around 50 mph. He's riding the white line on the right side of the right-hand lane. <-- This Interstate is commonly referred to as the Tri-State Tollway or I-294 for those not familiar with the Chicago area Interstates. Speed limits are 45 minimum/55 maximum and is between 3 and 5 lanes wide. I like to RR while DWL at ~ 48 - 55 mph which is between the limits and 100% legal. Those driving 75 + do get pulled over once in a while as the IL. State Troopers appear to allow 19 over before they get excited.

I was full of anticipation, not because of where I was going, but because Wayne was going to drive me there. Driving with Wayne, I soon learned, was akin to riding a horse sitting in a saddle behind a great jockey—it’s exhilarating, yet terrifying. The analogy is not quite right because great jockeys, like most great car drivers, love speed, but Wayne, well, doesn’t. “Going 65 scares me,” he tells me later. Such high speeds also kill fuel efficiency. <-- This was pulled from the article unfortunately

"Buckle up tight, because this is the death turn," says Wayne. Death turn? We're moving at 50 mph. <-- The following is the turn in question and named by Mark B. (GreenAndBlue) when we were coming home in his 2005 Accord Hybrid after a Max FE segment run and Gliding for all she was worth …


___What is not mentioned is that I am usually ICE off about 1/3 of a mile before we exit the Interstate at 60 mph so as to achieve an entry speed of 51 mph while in the Accord. This exit is really 2 lanes wide (maintenance lane and road with no discernable lane markings) and has an ~ 35’ elevation climb as you make your way through the 270 + degree turn. To the left, 55 + mph traffic. To the right, the exit. You make the call … By the time I reach the bridge deck, I am at 20 - 25 mph. I need to be traveling at 20 - 25 mph to make it over the crest of the bridge and Glide down the back side for another 5/8 of a mile w/ a right and into a Mall’s Ring Road while ICE-Off. The key here is entry speed is 51 mph but by the time I hit max G’s at the turns apex, I am already down to less then 38 mph and by the bridge deck, I am down to 20 - 25 mph.

"I hit the turn at 50, 51," he says. "I should have hit it at 52." <-- The HCH-II does not have the Glide capability of the Accord and this is why I wish I would have entered even hotter as it cost me some FE by restarting early after the long glide

Wayne loves acronyms almost as much as he loves FE (that's fuel economy). d-fas is a "draft-assisted fas," which means fasing while you're tailgating an 18-wheeler to reduce air resistance. <-- Sort of ... The proper way to perform a D-FAS is to approach a target at a higher rate of speed, FAS while you are in a Distant and glide into a Close-in if possible. From there, you will naturally fall back as seconds tick by eventually gliding naked waiting for the opportune time to re-start, re-engage, and Pulse back up to a speed for whatever comes next. Rarely will you ever be able to D-FAS in a HS P&G behind the same target as you never want to chase a target that has moved over 3 + blocks ahead and you are far back of 2 blocks when you hit your lower target in most cases.

As we're driving out of the parking lot, Wayne comes to the top of a small hill and tells me he's doing a fas. "What?" I ask. "That's a forced auto stop," he says, which is putting the car in neutral, turning off the engine, and gliding. It's illegal in some states—with the engine off, you can lose your power brakes after a few pumps, and with older cars, you can lose your power steering—but it's a favorite driving tool of many hypermilers. <-- I think most here know what a FAS is and the loss of power steering in any non-EPS based automobile is evident the second the ICE shuts down.

Wayne finally makes the turn. It's not the death turn of the previous night; it's a mini-death turn. "Because you guys are in the cab, and I've got milk in the back," Wayne explains, "I can't take the corner very fast." <-- This is a 45 mph limited roadway and I had a bag of breakfast groceries in the bed of the truck so I could not take any corner(s) like I normally would or the eggs, milk and bread would have become a mixture of French Toast without ever having left the truck Normally I can enter the subdivision at 32 - 34 mph but in this case, I had to enter at less then 20 thus causing a bit of a backup

Wayne and I go in to the supermarket to get milk, and when we return, Hobbit has the hood of the Ranger up, and to make a point, he puts his hand on the engine block. It’s about as warm as the morning air. The reason it isn’t hot is that Wayne’s only had the engine on for a minute or so during the two-mile drive here. Then Hobbit reaches inside the hubcap and feels the brake discs on the front tires. For most of us, they’d be hot from braking after even such a short commute, but Wayne’s discs are no warmer than the morning air. <-- This paragraph was pulled from the article

Linda Weidemann, of Fitchburg, Wisconsin, the organizer of the MPG Challenge at the Hybridfest, says that people make the mistake of seeing hypermiling as an all-or-nothing endeavor. “It’s not,” she says. “It’s like a grocery list. You can pick and choose the things you need.” Before we met, Wayne told me that with one lesson, he could improve my mpg by roughly 20 percent. <-- This paragraph was pulled from the article and it was by far the most succinct of anything mentioned. Thank You Linda!

We're at two car lengths.... Wayne takes a call from some friends in another car.... One car length.... I thump an imaginary brake pedal with my foot, just like my mother used to do while riding with me. <-- When we all left for HF 2006 from my home, I wanted to drive for maximum FE the whole route. I received I believe maybe 2 calls from Terry and his wife Cathy in their HCH-II and maybe one or two from Hobbit and Chuck (Delta Flyer) in Hobbits Prius II to get it moving or we were going to miss the Ice Cream Social. Dennis and I were already up to 95.x mpg about 15 miles out when we started receiving the calls to punch it up and forget about FE. The only choice I had while running 65 + was to pull into a Close in. The following pic was taken during our 15 - 20 minutes while flirting with that close in as well as the exact time Dennis had written that paragraph …


___This pic was taken on that warm afternoon drive with minimal traffic on I-94 Northbound into Milwaukee and I pulled a lousy 93.0 from her so you can see speed kills FE!!! I can pull higher FE then this driving through a Monsoon and 15 + mph headwinds on the way to New York for the Tour De Sol in 40 and 50 degree temps! I don’t recall receiving less then a 100 mpg segment in those kinds of temps over that kind of distance in an Insight and the following is what she allowed for that much faster trip then I wanted to drive

My drive to Madison while in Chuck’s Insight:

___A poor result at best. I should have just let Terry, Cathy, Chuck, and Hobbit go on ahead and met them 30 minutes later as that would have been the better thing to do for all our sakes.

___And the HF 2006 FE Challenge results as seen from Billy’s Insight after the FE Challenge:


___Finally, the two most important activities of the weekend … The first was when I let Dennis drive my Accord back to the O’Hare on Sunday morning. I was guiding him the entire way and he nailed down a 51.2 mpg segment over 30 miles from my drive dead cold to the O’Hare Departure terminal using only 3 FAS’ and DWL while between the limits and RR. I guided him using the Accord’s NAVI based TC and the iFCD as to when to accel and back off. This is where the 20% figure comes from while using an iFCD but he nailed down not just 20% greater then the EPA combined, he nailed down 76% > then the EPA combined with just one behind the wheel lesson not employing nearly the toolbox of tricks I would normally use and being perfectly legal the entire drive. And then the crescendo … Truly the most important aspect of the entire weekend was that Dennis purchased a brand new Prius II just a few weeks after arriving home in New York.

Friend purchases a brand new, 2006 Toyota Prius II for $18,155 + tax!

************************************************** ************************************

___That about does it for now. I can correct any misunderstandings in short order as a way of promoting low fuel consumption to those that may not yet understand its implications. It is not an all or none approach. You can use what you feel comfortable with, when and where appropriate but please at least use some of the capabilities that your Prius II’s, HCH-I’s and II’s, Insight’s, TCH’s and FEH’s have to offer. They are all amazing vehicle when pushed to their respective limits as many here have experienced shortly after learning just a few of the techniques some of us use on a daily basis.

___With the above, you have to be careful with the interpretation of what you read on the Internet. 15 minutes of fun along with 10 + hours of boredom do not describe an individual but I welcome anyone that would like to go out on a clinic and learn first hand some of the techniques to lower your carbon footprint as well as reduce all of our addiction to oil get a hold of me. I will do what I can to accommodate your needs and schedule.

___Chuck, Gary, Tom, Terry and Eric, thank you!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes - Owner/Admin - CleanMPG

 

Interesting thread, 6 pages in only one day.....

Like many of the others I've known Wayne online for a few years. I have a lot of respect for Wayne and his ability, he is no doubt one of the best hypermilers out there. Being a hypermiler myself Wayne has been informative, supportive, and a source of inspiration. He is somewhat of a hero in the hypermiler world and he has worked hard to get where he is.

I had wanted for years to meet Wayne and see how he works his magic. We finally got together during a driving event and he later came to my home and drove my car. I count Wayne as one of my friends.

All that said, his driving is extreme and I was not comfortable with all of his methods. I found it very rude when he would pass people (during a pulse) (in a no passing zone or downtown) and then slow down to a crawl (during a glide) right in front of the person he just passed. I know for a fact he pisses people off the way he drives. I wouldn't call it dangerous so much as mildly embarrassing, like driving with my dad who was too aggressive but at the same time an alert, fantastically safe driver with hundreds of thousands of miles of driving and zero accidents. You can be rude and safe/alert at the same time.

Driving with Wayne and/or my dad could be fun if you are in the mood for such things.....

 

Again....this is dangerous. I don't care whether you get 200MPG doing it.

 

Do you think the truck driver enjoys having someone that close while he is driving? While any accident woud clearly be the fault of the tailgaiter, tha does not make the job of scraping the car from the rear any more enjoyable. I hope the truck driver does not get too distracted by the drafter and end up making a mistake as well...

Are we trying to reduce fuel consumption in general, or just our personal consumption? If it is our total consumption, then I suggest we need to widen how we measure that. If, as it has been descibed here, usng P&G in traffic causes others to get upset and end up gunning it, then our savings are negated by the extra consumption by those around us. Whether that person was pinheaded or not for gunning it is irrelevant if our goal is to reduce overall consumption. Pinheaded or not, that gas just got burned. If we are interested in reducing overall consumption, then fitting in as best we can needs to be one of the constraints. If all we want is to feed our compulsion to get that consumption needle thingy as low as possible, then P&G away. If you have the luxury of driving on a private or deserted road, then enjoy. If you live with others around you, then take that into account.

By the way, the article describes a 2 hour commute (each way?). Another way to lower consumption is to arrange ones life (when possible) to minimize the distance to cover each day. I made a choice to buy a smaller house a few miles from work rahter than in the burbs. I therefore burn less gas in a week without using hypermilling than someone hypermilling a 2 hour commute in a single day. Of course, someone who takes the subway to work can call me a wastefull SOB since they went even further and got rid of the car.

No one is wearing a halo here so lets try to keep the tone like a bunch of dudes sharing a pitcher talking about cars.

Cheers,

rcomeau

 

It does not matter that I said this at all
Never mind he confessed - cyber-behead him anyway - Death to Hypermilers!!!

When people late last night post fictional horror stories of riding with Wayne, it's obvious some are bent on defaming Wayne and hypermiling at any cost.

It looked like this thread was going to naturally fade away earlier this morning.

A moderator may need to "mercy kill" this thread.

 

Hi Tim K:
___If you would read the reply, you will find out you can’t get 200 mpg doing this. If you could, there would be a payback. The 180 - 200 mpg runs were achieved on the back country roads of Madison, WI., Wadsworth, IL. and Tonkwa, OK. at speeds most will never be able to include in their daily grind. If they could, everybody would be receiving 200 mpg …

___GPSMan1, causing more fuel to be burned in my geographical area? I am sorry to here that you still hold mindless and personal grievances against CleanMPG, Gary G. and myself. You are old enough to know better
___The key here. You can press up your tires to MAX sidewall and follow the limits to exceed your EPA by a significant margin without doing anything but driving or you can drive like most others and receive 20.5 mpg in the average car with the average driver. 20.5 is unacceptable just as 40 is in a Prius II or HCH-I/II. You can do better and I will do everything in my power to make sure you have the knowledge and tools to achieve whatever goal you decide to set for yourself plain and simple. If you prefer not to use the tools, that is up to you as well as fine but at least you will have the tools at your disposal for when and where they are applicable.

___Jmorton10, my offer is still open and if you would like the opportunity to participate in a Hypermiling clinic, I most certainly will make room for one. Tomorrow, an individual is coming over from Mundelein, IL. To hone his and his wife’s own Prius II skills and I look forward to it as always …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

 

I think he was trying to say that following that close is too dangerous to try no matter HOW high your MPG is. Its not worth the risk. He hits the brakes for any reason.... deer, accident in front of him, etc and I don't know how you are going to stop in time. I hope there is more space there than it looks.

That picture is actually the only thing in this tread that really scared the crap out of me when I saw it... the rest wasn't so bad.

 

Maybe there was a tow hook, and it was being towed. Now that would increase FE!

Roch